partner has our child and is refusing to return to the UK

[davejohns]

So we went for a holiday to her home country in the EU, and I had to return a week early for work reasons. On the eve that she and our child was suppose to fly back, she said didn't want to come back. I'm trying to keep things amicable at the moment and intend to fly back out there and resolve things, and is it stands we are not separated, but if that falls apart legally is that still abduction if I do not consent to our child not returning?

This is a very stressful time for me. Thanks for reading

She has been trying but maybe you weren't listening.

I’m not been funny but you are seperated now, there’s no official separation papers you sign like in a divorce as far as I’m aware. Your (ex) partner moving to another country without you and refusing to return is in most peoples view separation. I assume you don’t wish to move there. Even if that was an option how she’s gone about it is horrible.

I know of a similar situation in The Netherlands with a Dutch father and a mother from elsewhere and the mother lost custody, specifically because of doing this.

You need ASAP to contact a lawyer and I'd say the police too. You need to keep all texts you have, any evidence of communication, especially of her saying she won't return - it's possible she starts to pretend that either you were in agreement (you flew home leaving them there) or that she was just staying for a few extra weeks on holiday.

Even if she were to fly home tomorrow, this is incredibly serious going forward because you will never know if she's planning it again.

And I wouldn't worry about her being the mother, you're actually in a slightly stronger position because you're the same nationality as the British courts which is the residence of the child. - that is what my friend was told by her lawyer when she was the Brit and the father lived abroad and tried to do something he shouldn't with their kids.

The suspicions people here have of abuse should be nipped in the bud straight away because right now it makes zero difference. Plus, if the father refused to return home, we'd not be asking the mother if she was abusive. And I'm saying this as a woman living abroad in an abusive relationship which has made everything worse in terms of me being able to (not) leave. Even in cases of abuse you cannot refuse to return back to the UK with your child(ren). The point is that it's not about any abuse right now. It's about the welfare of the child(ren) and the legal rights of both parents. OP has rights, the child has rights and the mother has trampled all over them to the point of being illegal.

OP how long have it been since she was supposed to return?

How old is the child?
From a completely different point of view, if the child is very young, she might feel isolated and lonely. Missing her own family ect. Does she have a support network in the UK? Does she work? These might be issues that you need to adress in order for her to come back.

These are issues the mother needs to figure out. Especially if they're separating. It sucks to have no network and a young child/children and be abroad in a place you may not want to live in - I've been there and it's hard to describe how awful it can be. But it's no excuse for removing a child abroad. And it's sadly part and parcel of the range of possible experiences when having a child away from your home country and/or family.

Ok, she wants to move back to her home country. You do not. Now she has refused to bring your baby home. I take it the relationship is over? Child abduction is a tough thing to recover from, whatever the cause. If mediation or family counselling or similar are still possible, offer that now. If you two can still find a way to address her desire to be in her country and yours to be in the UK, so much the better.

You have options - all of them involve seeing a solicitor immediately. You may need a solicitor in her country, as well. I agree that the starting point needs to be her returning to the UK with the baby and negotiating the breakdown of your relationship and any future co-parenting arrangements.

But if I were her, and I was leaving you and did not want to be in the UK, I would resist that.

You are going to need to consider the final outcome you would like if your partner never returns to the UK.

What country are they in? - PL

Maybe it's me, maybe it's early Sunday morning, but where the fuck is 'PL'?

Don't threaten her with legal action yet. Go talk to her face-to-face. You haven't said how old the child is, but if the child is still a baby, she may just need a bit of family support. Either a longer stay or them (mother?) come to the UK to stay for a while.

@heldinadream I think it must be Poland.

@heldinadream Poland

First see a solicitor. It's not necesssrily about threatening legal action, but about making all the right moves.

They should talk, of course. But she needs to do that talking in the UK.

This is very humane and in principle there's nothing wrong. The thing is that if she decides not to come back and OP decides to then go the legal route, he has a weaker case.

Before he does anything else he needs legal advice and to record that she's not returned. It's not correct to say she can just go home and refuse to come back with the child if she feels like it. And personally, it would have suited me if it were.

I can't believe the advice given would be the same if a Polish father had returned to Poland because he missed having his extended family around his child and all the support that brings, even if he were the primary carer.

I think you really need to talk to her to understand why life in the UK has become so unbearable. Is it just the loneliness of being a new mum? Or is it the horrid post Brexit xenophobia that she is struggling with? Cost of living crisis? Dysfunctional NHS? What is your joint life in UK actually looking like?

I'm originally from Germany, and I know that my family would have a much higher standard of living in Germany than we do here. Life would be easier on so many levels. Is your partner thinking the same and trying to get that across to you?

And: If she has lived in the UK with you for however many years, why not spend a few years in Poland now to balance it out? Nobody here seems to be considering that as an option. But it is one. It might not be what you had planned, but could be great fun!

I wish you an amicable resolution.

We have discussed the possibility of my moving there. Just by entertaining that option does that make my case weaker?

Did she say she was homesick & wanted to go home before the baby came along?

you say it's 'not abusive' but would she agree &/or controlling. It is coming across that you weren't listening to how unhappy she was.

how old is your child?

Considering this is Poland I'd be incredibly wary and definitely get legal advice asap. There have been a few well publicized cases in the last few years involving child abduction. Not parent on parent disputes but fugitives from home countries (Scandinavia) social services, and the nationalist furore whipped up in the Polish press was unbelievable. Also, it's an arch-conservative country and one where the independence of the courts is in grave doubt. I have a hard time seeing a dad get justice in a Polish court if it comes to the mother battling extradition.

Poland is a treaty partner to The Hague Convention. The children are resident in the UK so you need to see a solicitor and apply to the courts to have the children returned to the UK. The. If she wants to move them to Poland, she has to fight it in the UK court.

Should I try to have my child returned voluntarily?
Having your child returned to you voluntarily can save long and costly legal cases. We encourage, where appropriate, parents to keep trying to reach an agreement with the person who has abducted their child, even if the parent has already made a formal application to us as the Australian Central Authority. We will continue to progress your application while you are having these discussions.
However, you should be aware of the time these discussions take. The longer a child lives in a new country, the more difficult it may be to get an order to have them returned. Your child may have become settled in the other country. In this case, a court may decide that the child should not be returned even though they were abducted from Australia.

Apply here:

United Kingdom (United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland)
(Central Authority for England and Wales and the Central Authority to which applications may be addressed for transmission to the appropriate Central Authority within the United Kingdom)
The International Child Abduction and Contact Unit (ICACU)
Office of the Official Solicitor & Public Trustee
Post Point 0.53
102 Petty France
London SW1H 9AJ
DX: Post Point 053 Official Solicitor & Public Trustee DX 152384 Westminster 8
United Kingdom
tel. +44 (203) 681 2756
Email for new applications and general enquiries: [email protected]k
Website: www.gov.ukk

I can't believe the advice given would be the same if a Polish father had returned to Poland because he missed having his extended family around his child and all the support that brings, even if he were the primary carer.

No the advice wouldn't be the same because I wouldn't be querying if the father had post-natal depression or post-birth anxiety.

So far the facts are that she has taken your child away from his legal place of residence and is refusing to return him. That is child abduction.

Be very very careful of anything that you put in writing. Try and get us much communication into writing. It would be good to have proof that she says she refuses to return.

Get on the appropriate charity pages. Find a specialist lawyer as a matter of urgency.

Write a timeline.

Privately i would work out if you could find a job in Poland. My boss works for a global organization out of Poland. We all work remotely.

Courts tend to take the status quo into account. So this needs to be dealt with before it becomes the status quo.

Regardless we wouldn't be questioning if the mother had been abusive and in this case we don't even know if it's a baby, could be an older child.

Does it matter if she has postnatal depression? Awful as that is, and yes she absolutely deserves support in that situation, but that's not what OP is asking, he's asking for advice on how to get his child back who has been abducted from their home country, frankly how the mother is feeling is neither here nor there she can't just uproot their child without his agreement.

Wishing you well OP. I hope it can be sorted out amicably between you but do seek legal advice as others have said.

Why are some people straight away jumping on the

• are you sure you're not abusive?

-you've obviously not been listening to her

• sounds like you were controlling

-poor her,

A million light years away from posts where the df has gone on holiday qnd refusing to return. Every single post in empathy for the dm in those cases.

I don't know about this but I do hope so, even if it's temporarily to teach her what you're going through at the moment. What despicable behaviour. So sorry OP. I hope you get your child back and that this woman gets psychiatric care.

I live in Poland.She is not escaping to an easier life in any sense.

amongst all this, I never want a child, especially my own to be deprived of either their mother or father