Questions about breaching a CAO (with 'reasonable excuse')

[TheOrigFV45]

I did not take my son to the usual hand over to ex on Saturday as DS (9) did not want to go. He sat in school crying to one of the teachers, giving list of reasons he didn't want to go, some of which are emotionally abusive.

So I believe I have reason for breaching the Order.

Ex says he'll instruct his sol, but I'm wondering whether I should be
proactive and start proceeding with varying the order myself. The only reason I haven't done before now is because DS would not speak to any one other than me and I just could not face it. DS has given me the courage I need.

What happens if we both start proceedings?

Yes your ex will se it.

1. No prizes for getting in the right box. Just get it in somewhere.

2.yes. put the last case no. 3.it is a specific thing so say no.

1. Invite the court to consider urgent hearing because order not bring complied with. Suggest hearing in a week

1. Yes. Lives with you.
2. Yes

Thank you. Here's some in lieu of your solicitor fees.

Seriously I am hugely grateful. I told my sobbing son last night that I would keep him safe. I am prepared to do what I have to in order to do this.

I agree with all the above. If I were dealing with your application on issue, I wouldn't allocate it an urgent hearing so be warned you might be waiting a month or so for a FHDRA. Keep a note of what happens each time there should be contact so that you can give a clear explanation of whether he went and if not why not. Don't worry too much - the court will reconsider the situation and look at how things are now.

So glad you are getting advice here!

Have you mentioned him being left in accommodation on his own locked in, taken out of school when ill then being made to go on a cycle ride and so on...

I wouldn't expect to get an urgent hearing either, George! Best to ask, however.

Good luck OP.

Oh yes, you can all ask 😀😀

Me again.

What does this "6a. Urgent hearing
Set out the order(s)/directions sought" mean?
I have already said on the very first page what order I am seeking.

If you ask for an urgent hearing, rather than waiting 6-8 weeks while CAFCASS do background etc, you need to say why, and what you want the court to do at that urgent hearing, as opposed to what long term order you seek.

Oh right, thank you. I'm glad I asked.
I do think I need to ask for an urgent hearing as I am breaking the CO and would like legal backup.

I understand it is unlikely to be granted.

If it is heard urgently and it's agreed that DS stay with me, would that just be a temporary measure until a subsequent hearing, where cafcass do their checks etc?

What I really want is for ex to change his behaviour so that DS is happy to see him.

I actually don't know what I will do if the head teacher doesn't support me in DS being a safeguarding issue. Ex will have full right to just take DS from school.

Form C1A

Detailing abuse (to me and DS) - sweet lord.

Is it just since the existing CAO has been in place, or for all time?
The application is for the child, how much (if any) info do I need to give about abuse towards me? And how much should I disclose regarding help I have received?

I could write a book.

Part of me is hoping that I receive notice that ex has filed an application then I don't need to do this, but still have evidence that I was being proactive in getting my own application in.

Did you file a C1A last time around?

No

OK then yes, you should put the lot in.

Did you mention your allegations anywhere else in the previous proceedings? To CAFCASS?

Allegations about ex's abuse towards me, or DS?

I had attempted to get an ex-parte non-mol order during my divorce. That details all the abuse towards me. That's a HUGE document.

Cafcass did not do a full report for DS. The abuse towards DS did not ramp up until after the CO was in place.

You need to cover both abuse towards you, and towards your son. Abuse of you is abuse of your son.

All in, I'm afraid. You can refer to the non mol statement, but was that ever served on him?

Thanks. Nope. The whole thing was awful.
I went for ex-parte because he was still living in the home and there was no way I was going to give him notice. What were they expecting...that's we'd car share to court of something.
Judge said she could not grant it ex-parte but listed it for an urgent hearing (and said that it would most likely be granted then). I had already told my sol that if it went that way I would withdraw the application. I don't think she believed me. I withdrew it and disappeared for a few days feeling utterly, utterly let down by the system. Black eye? Yup...they'd get rid of him then. There is still a VERY LONG WAY to go when it comes to EA.

I nearly begged the judge at the CAO not to disclose that I had a failed non-mol - but nope - FULL DISCLOSURE. So ex knows I tried to get a non-mol and it wasn't granted.

I actually don't think I can do this again, not unless DS's head teacher raises a safeguarding issue.

...and even though she said she would list it for an urgent hearing, turns out she didn't anyway. Ex would have been served papers and we would have been living under the same roof for a week while we waited.
Fuck that.

I understand it is hard. But the court has to be fair to you both, and without notice orders can be hard to get, in the absence of physical violence.

In any case, your allegations were made and presumably your statement was disclosed, so you can refer to that, or attach a copy to the C1A.

And to be fair, you had somewhere to disappear to, so had you persevered with the non mol, you might have got there.

A week is an urgent hearing, btw. My home court is currently listing hearings in December. Well, probably January by now. Welcome to the neo Tory justice system.

Keep going FV I know it has been utterly awful for you and DS2 presumably DS1 can also be asked to provide supporting statements now he is an adult and no longer has to see your Ex? Or is he still struggling with it all?

I am SO fed up with physical violence mattering more than emotional.
My own evidence, that of two friends, and my GP wasn't enough.
I don't know how much more I have to give.

A development - of sorts.

Ex has not been obstructive this week, just a simple 'OK' in response to my texts keeping him informed of me continuing to keep DS2 with me. Maybe he has sought advice and they've told him to just go with it until things get resolved?

I have been working on the forms. I don't know if ex has had legal advice; I've heard nothing and he won't tell me.

However, he text yesterday out of the blue suggesting DS be with him just w/e and holidays. He has not responded to me asking to clarify whether he means EOW and 1/2 holidays, but I presume so.

Then he went on to say he'll do whatever DS2 wants.

So, I don't know what to do now. I DO NOT want to go back to an ad hoc arrangement week by week; that suits no one.

I do need to vary the CO, but maybe don't need to go all guns blazing with the safeguarding/abuse supplementary form.

I have not mentioned any of this to DS2, while I want his wishes to be taken into account, it's not his decision to make entirely.

He has agreed to see his Dad w/e after next and just stay Sat night (it would normally be 3 nights). Ex has not confirmed this is OK.

So, we are making small steps, but ex isn't really engaging with me which makes it very hard. I am out of my depth.

DS1 will not speak out against his Dad. The boys actually rarely see their Dad at the same time.

I would include all the stuff, yes you need fixed because he will never engage and be reasonable.

I would include that ex has suggest we and half holidays. I would include that DS has stated that he is happy to stay one night at a time. I would suggest that if cafcass believe DS is not at risk that it is EOW got one night and build up to 2 nights and perhaps that half the holidays is too much for DS at the moment?

I do think you must include all that stuff, you are seeking to support DS against someone who is also being abusive to him and in the future you may need to be able to show the courts that you have them evidence and did everything thing to support an APPROPRIATE relationship between DS2 and your ex.

OK, so it's been very, very hard. Just looking at the form which asks
me to detail the abuse towards me (time, duration, type of and action taken) has sent me back to a very dark time.

The real abuse started in 2008. I am NOT about to go into detail about my MH, nor do I want to list when I called the police and all the other stuff, but I know I need to. I understand that ex needs to have a chance to respond to my allegations, but I honestly thought I was done with that. We are divorced and that was over 2 years of even worse abuse.

A friend came over earlier (the one who gave me refuge in 2008) and sat with me to get it down.

No, ex never saw my non-mol statement, he only knows that I tried to get one and failed. Power to him, yeah.

Well done, you are amazingly strong, you have come so far