no longer pregnant, abusve ex pursuing me/harassing via solicitor

[buzzpop]

Please see my other thread on relationships 'please help me make sense of this' been through hell with ex, Emotionally abusive, bullying and very very controlling. Was pregnant, no longer am. He does not believe me, wants proof and continues to harass, police are involved too. My post below, WA suggested to post here in legal, Any thoughts reply welcome. I do not what to give him proof s this may put me at further risk from him, and also I know I do not have to legally, but I don't know what he will do next...

A letter from solicitor came via email today, no doubt he is blind copied, and exactly seven days just as he said in his last threatening emails.
I am shocked this family solicitors is proceeding as they are copied into my response to his threats stating he is continuing to harrass me and all further communication will be given to the Police.
It basically repeats what he has said in emails, that I 'allege to no longer be pregnant' , that this has come as a shock to their client because despite difficulties in the relationship with me, he was very happy at the news that he was to become a father, and to assist him in accepting that he is no longer to be a Father, please provide some documentary evidence from the hospital or your doctor to confirm you are no longer pregnant. Once our client has sight of this, he confirms he will not contact you again.
Understandably our client needs to be sure that the information you have provided is correct, as f you are having his child, he is keen to be fully involved both in the pregnancy and to be fully involved with his child following the birth.
We hope you will understand the position our client finds himself him and your cooperation would be appreciated.

I'm livid, torn between

• reporting it to Police as evidence of further harassment and letting solicitors know (though they already know this from prior emails that he CEO them into and I responded to stating it was ongoing harassment and would be forwarded to police)

• completely ignoring, not responding at all ... But I do not know what he will do after that....

The Police are being rubbish, still haven't arrested or done anything at all to him despite three separate reports and statements, I have to do a three hour round trip at the weekend to give in all my evidence to an officer who frankly, sounds like he sympathizes, and I didn't get good vibes off when I said I was no longer pregnant as a result of what has gone on... Originally I didn't want him arrested, but I do now. I've had enough, I want him out of my life and I want him to know he doesn't get to do this to women.

The OP can bring evidence of no pregnancy/birth to court and hand it to the judge. She can bring letters from her GP and hand it to the judge. She does not need to provide her ex or his solicitor with anything.

.

The court would not simply take buzzpop's word for it. To do that would enable anyone in her situation to frustrate children Act proceedings by denying a child had ever been born, whether or not that was true.

She posted earlier: I should add that the legal advice here has been very sound and I am very grateful for it, no I would rather not move it too AIBU, that is not why I posted.
This is how I feel now, I may feel differently in a month or whenever, if the harassment continues and I feel providing the proof is the only route left to get him to leave me alone. I think it's just to raw right now

Fair enough. It's up to you. But please pay attention to the postings of the professionals who have tried to advise you, rather than those who have given no doubt well meaning but misguided advice. That way, at least you'll know where you stand and the consequences on inaction.

Hi OP, I was on your other thread too. I just wanted to make a point about how this decision (to provide evidence or not) is framed. There's a narrative on this thread about the value of not giving the evidence as that is giving into the demands of a bully, and it will only make him carry on etc. It sounds a bit as if you might get trapped into a certain decision because it's framed as a kind of heroic resistance to his attempted domination.

You could look at it in another way - giving him the evidence is like calmly unbuckling the shackle from your wrist and waving it in his face: "Look, you have no hold on me". You contemptuously drop it at his feet, and walk away.

I can't predict the outcomes from one course of action or another. All I'm saying is that if there's a decent possibility that providing the evidence is a way of saving yourself from lengthy legal action (draining and expensive - I've been there), you don't have to see it as you being weak and giving it. You don't have to fight him and win. You can wave your free pass out of the boxing ring and get out of there.

"giving in" not "giving it".

I think it would be a lot easier to produce evidence of a certificated negative pregnancy test now, at this time when he is expecting OP to be pregnant. (As I said earlier, it may be worth asking a Sexual Health clinic so as not to use the OP's own GP and maintain a higher level of privacy. They are also used to people needing negative STI tests in relationships so may be more savvy).

If evidence had to be produced at a future hearing, it would then be more intrusive into OP's medical history as it is not possible to prove something didn't happen without showing the things that did happen.

It might even be worth getting it done now for future use.

If it is not acceptable to him, then he is not going to get very far trying to bring a case about a non existent baby to court with a certificated negative test for the time in question. It will stop him using the courts to bully her.

If he tries other means, then it would be good evidence for the non-molestation order.

There are lots of cases where you could just produce all the evidnece after 12 months of litigation but it is a ridiculous course of action. if you can stem things off in 30 minutes of efforts now to avoid a year of getting to court why would you not just supply the confirmation now rather than force the other person and you to have months of litigation? It is much more traumatic to have the year of litigaton than just supply the confirmation now. Also most family disputes settle by people compromising on both sides. Giving in on some issues is often the way to achieve some measure of victory.

I don't actually think it's that unreasonable to provide written confirmation that someone's child is no longer. Controlling, abusive, arsehole or not - it was his child.

If the position is that the ex won't back off whether given evidence or not then surely it's sensible to choose the option that would strengthen a non-mol case.

Refusing to give evidence might give the illusion of empowerment but will ultimately lead to a far greater loss of control if the ex does go to court - which is exactly what I'd do if I was a man and I thought someone was concealing the birth of my child from me.

I don't actually think it's that unreasonable to provide written confirmation that someone's child is no longer. Controlling, abusive, arsehole or not - it was his child.

there was no child - ever. there was an early pregnancy that no longer exists.

People posting reasonable advice on here about just submitting a letter have absolutely no idea what it is like to deal with a stalking obsessed person.

This isn't about standing up to bullying (although most parents on here would probably agree that placating a bully isn't actually ever an effective strategy and would never recommend this to their children -"ah just give him your sandwich, even though he isn't entitled to it, it will be easier and I'll make you another one and then he won't ask you for a sandwich again - he said he wouldn't" I don't think so)

This is about the best way to deal with/neutralise a stalker and i think the OP should get advice from professionals who have experience of this- not experts in the children act.

Canyouforgiveher, you're assuming that he's out to control her, and if she gives in on this, he'll just find another reason for stalking her. That is a massive assumption to make. I have an ex who is all about "owning" our dd, and if she wasn't in dispute, I'm confident he really would have no interest in me.

I'm not saying this man is exactly the same - neither of us can, as we've never met him. But there is at least a possibility that if she provides the evidence, his fixation will end.

Your sandwich analogy really doesn't apply here.

This is about the best way to deal with/neutralise a stalker and i think the OP should get advice from professionals who have experience of this- not experts in the children act.

The professionals (in legal matters btw) are experienced family law practitioners. That means not only Children Act, but also FLA injunctions and relationship breakdown generally.

If you look at the OP she asked for help in getting him out of her life. Those advocating she ignores him are simply advocating continued pressing from his solicitors for proof and possibly a CA application.

On the other hand if OP does as I and others have advised she will be best placed, if he or his solicitor continue to contact her, to report him to the police and the solicitor to the SRA.

If this abusive ass doesn't know the are the OP live in (apologies if this has been mentioned), what assurance would she have that a gp's letter (presumably on letter head) would be adequately redacted so as not to inform her abuser of her approximate location? How would op's safety be maintained?

A letter is the logical - if emotionally abusive - way of managing this issue...but at what price?

Canyouforgiveher, you're assuming that he's out to control her, and if she gives in on this, he'll just find another reason for stalking her. That is a massive assumption to make. I have an ex who is all about "owning" our dd, and if she wasn't in dispute, I'm confident he really would have no interest in me.

I'm basing my opinion on the Ops own posts not an assumption that any man in similar circumstances is stalking. I could see how someone would want some reassurance that a pregnancy is over. The OP is not describing this.

Solicitors are not experts in stalkers and how to deal with them - even if they are family law practitioners.

Solicitors tend to be pretty good at knowing what a judge would say to an application for a non-mol, which I assume the stalking experts would agree is a good idea.... Or perhaps the stalking experts think simply ignoring someone is enough?

Well I personally feel that the OP already has grounds to seek a non-mol order. If it's not granted and she is seen as obstructive, then let her comply with whatever the judge advises or directs. Telling her that she has no basis because she won't confirm that she is NOT PREGNANT is bizarre advice.

This is one solicitors' letter asking for confirmation which is perfectly reasonable. These kind of stalker men want a court action. He will be delighted at anything which means he is in a year's litigation for example so if instead the letetr is sent confirming there is no pregnancy any more due to miscarriage or abortion and the solicitors say that will be their last conduct that is the most efficient way to deal with it. If she ignores it they would be right to assume that she is lying, the baby is still there and she wants to deny the father contact presumably. The doctor's simple letter kills that issue stone dead.

It's a 'professional' who has apparently written to the OP asking her to prove she's not pregnant. The ex has no legal or moral right to that information and accordingly my faith in the judgement of 'professionals' is tested.

You do not have the right to information about an ex. She's told him the situation, which is more than she 'has' to do. If she gives him medical evidence then he will want to know how this situation has occurred and that potentially puts her at further risk. Every piece of acknowledgement she gives his demands will feed them. He isn't going to react like a 'reasonable' man because he isn't one. Reasonable men don't get their solicitor to demand proof that somebody is no longer pregnant.

I'm seeing a doctor in the morning to get a referral for counselling. I will explain the circs and ask about the letter then. If she will do it, I will do it.
If she will do the letter, I have not yet decided whether I will give this information straight away, in a few months or when/if it goes to court in October. At the moment I want peace and no contact from him, and since the solicitor letter came I have had three days of peace, which is helping me in thinking things through and coming to terms with things.
I absolutely think he will send more solicitors letters/emails after I give him what he wants, it is the nature of the beast. He will want to know how it happened, when etc. but I take the advice of posters here that it does mean I have proof for the future for a non- mol, though I can't honestly say I have faith in any non-mol order or police or what he said in a solicitors letter as proof that it will protect me, I just don't think it will. He will carry on regardless.
I had all the harassment evidence downloaded today at the police station, he will be served a harassment warning letter this week by them.

Anther solicitor here. He will not find any solicitor to ask you what happened, when etc

If you didn't know the background (and in fact even if you did) you could understand that someone needed to know whether or not they would be a father in a few months. You don't have to tell him but it would easier to.

Once there is no pregnancy, there are no more questions that a solicitor would put.

Good news te. Police.

I think he will carry on. Sorry.

So I think getting the law on your side is the only hope of stopping him. It is absolutely none of his business how it happened.

You send the letter if/when you are ready and then just report report report until he gets arrested.

Good luck.

Would a solicitor send another letter after that querying the validity of the proof eg if it was from a GP if he doubted it and asked for more proof to be requested?

Solicitors tend to be pretty good at knowing what a judge would say to an application for a non-mol, which I assume the stalking experts would agree is a good idea.... Or perhaps the stalking experts think simply ignoring someone is enough?

Actually experts often do think complete refusal to engage is better than communicating in the (futile) hope of making the stalker go away/see reason. And the most dangerous time for a woman with an obsessed stalking ex is often just after the non-mol is granted. nothing changes inside the head of a stalker when a non molestation order is granted. they don't suddenly become beacons of reason who understand there will be consequences to their unreasonable and frightening actions. they always knew there would be consequences, they just don't care.

Solicitors are expert in many things but not everything.

Buzz pop
You are already anticipating more abuse aren't you, he won't stop.
Can you see a solicitor specialising in stalker behaviour
Does anyone on here know of anyone?
Can women's aid help find one
Can you write a diary from the beginning of your relationship and use it and compare it to these programmes and lessons to point out that he is just a criminal.

The way I see it is this honey child.

That solicitor will send whatever the hell he gets paid to send.

He didn't break any law! He just asked a question - as instructed by his client.

You need to see those letters from his solicitor and your request for protection as two separate matters. Whether the harassment is coming from him directly or through his solicitor, we both know what it is.

What you need to focus on little one is getting every single piece of evidence against him (including his solicitor's letters) lined up like little ducks in a row.
You need a log of every email, text and voicemail. Document dates, times and content.
Then you go into a court clerk and you ask to see a magistrate to get an interim order until a hearing for a full order.

In the meantime, you need to go to your GP and document how you're feeling. As a result of him and his treatment of you. Get yourself referred for counselling.

You can break free of this idiot. You just need to be clever about it.