Can this actually be ordered in a court?!

[CouthyMow]

I am asking on behalf of my friend.

Background situation : she has four DC's. Her first two have different fathers to her second two. She split up with the father of the youngest two about 3 months ago.

At the first court hearing, an occupation order was made for her abusive ex to move back into the house. With much help from me, she managed to go back to court, higher court rather than local (different judge, local one well known for being very misogynistic). Got occupation order lifted, but had to let him into the house from 8.45-3.45 every week day, and all weekend every other weekend.

Her oldest two DC's refused to share the house with him from the moment the occupation order was made, and stayed with my friend's mum.

He is making all sorts of spurious allegations about my friend, all untrue.

For the holidays, the order stated he was allowed in the house from 8.45 Monday till 3.45 Thursday. The older girls moved back in as they missed their mum and their younger siblings. The ex moved in with the next door neighbour.

We got Women's Aid involved, who were
horrified. They got an earlier court date, today, and CAFCASS were meant to prepare a report on the effect this was having on the older two DC's having someone who has been abusive to them and very verbally aggressive towards them, in their home. It wasn't complete in time.

My friend has been told in court today that she HAS to leave the house from Monday through till Thursday. Her older DC's (15 and 10yo) can stay though. But they don't WANT to if he is there and their mum isn't there to protect them and stand up for them. She was also told that given his (UNTRUE) allegations against her, the court could seek a Section 37 and get ALL FOUR of her kids put in Foster Care.

My friend is in bits, her ex repeatedly tells her that he is going to destroy her, he will take all FOUR DC's away from her (even the two that aren't his and hate him and don 't even want to be in the house when he is there), and he will take the house away, and he won't stop until she is in the gutter.

Can the courts REALLY do this? It seems to me like they are complicit in his abuse of her!

And she has just texted me to say that her 4-weekly child benefit hasn't been paid today, and she has JUST opened a letter saying that he is trying to get her child benefit.

Please, tell me what I can do to help her, the courts are helping her ex to continue to abuse her she is in bits.

The courts are leaving her homeless for 3.5/4 days out of the week, when it is HER housing association house, HER tenancy, he wasn't even a joint tenant FFS!!

The CB thing I get that happened to me, I agree with last poster, to refuge with them all, returning the younger ones for their contact time, is there actually a written order stating all these things, it would be very odd.

I also think that she would not have to buy things for the house if she wasnt living it, she wont be homeless as she will be in the refuge.

Yes, take all 4 to refuge that is giving space and bring 2 youngest to house for contact.

Fuck supplying him with food and paying bills etc. She is in a refuge.

Contact csa and put on a claim.

Go to ha get them to kick him out as she's not living there and he has less contact for kids are week, so it's not his main home as 4 nights a week he has to vacate.

Couthy

If shes happy to lose the house, could she ring the HA and tell them her older DC are no longet residing there. Surely that would mean she is no longer eligble to live there and then court order would become invalid because the HA would have served her notice, rather than her move out IYSWIM?

Has the court ordered re her paying for everything - I'd be very surprised - poor woman.

Don't WA help her sort all this out? What happened to MARAC meeting? hA shouldnhave a rep at that.

Marac meeting is where it was decided refuge was best, but ha not there.

The court order STATES that the two younger children MUST be resident in that address all week.

So she CAN'T stay in the refuge with the two younger ones.

If she claims that the OLDER DC's aren't living with her - then she can't claim TC's & child benefit for them!

Her solicitor is finally getting off her arse and applying for a non-molestation order and an occupancy order on my friend's behalf. It's about fucking time!

Yes, court order states she is to pay for everything as she gets the money for the children. Except now NO-ONE is getting money for any of the four children!

CSA a no go she will get nothing, he is on JSA and as he is having them for 3 nights a week it will be a nil assessment anyway.

The children HAVE to be RESIDENT in the house ALL WEEK according to the court order. Whether she is there or not.

(I have seen all 3 court orders)

My friend has been told that going into the refuge will compromise her case. I don't know exactly WHY, but she will tell me this afternoon.

Also, she has been ORDERED by the judge not to have a single alcoholic drink while she has her younger two DC's. She doesn't have a problem with not drinking, but with the fact that the judge has ordered this in the first place.

This is because her ex is claiming she is an alcoholic. She isn't. My mother IS, and I WOULD know.

Her ex has phoned Social Services because she dared to buy a rubber ring paddling pool for her youngest two DC's.

He called the police because her 15yo DD had her two best friends staying over. Just because one is a boy. Who happens NOT to be interested in females in that way, so nothing untowards was going to happen. He claimed it was unsuitable to happen around his DC's.

He also called the police when she had a friend round for a takeaway. Because she brought her dog. A little miniature Yorkie. Even though it was in the garden and they were in the house, he claimed it was dangerous around his DC...

She is now refusing to leave any extra food than literally itemised meals for the DC's only. She can't leave any extra's, she is trying to feed 4 DC's from £47 a week.

Sounds like there is a lot more to it than first written. Priority needs to be contact with a solicitor. Poor kids!!!

I think if I were her I would welcome police & ss being called over such trivial things because it will strengthen her case BUT if their are issues with alcohol then I can now see why the order is as it is.

Are these police matters AFTER thye court order or before?

Thing is, there ISN'T a problem with alcohol. Unless you count one glass, 2/3 times a week as a 'problem'. Which even with an alcoholic mother, I don't see as a problem.

Her ex is teetotal though, and doesn't approve of even one glass a YEAR. Hence, in his mind, someone drinking one bottle of wine over the course of a week IS a problem. Which to the majority of people, it's not.

She HONESTLY doesn't have a 'problem' with alcohol, that's the thing!

A glass of wine at a BBQ is NOT having a 'problem' with alcohol, RedHelen.

My friend has offered to do random blood testing to prove she has not been drinking, even with no notice.

He has accused her of taking drugs, she has offered the courts to do strand testing on her hair to prove she hasn't been.

It's all spurious crap to try to denigrate her character, to try to aid his case. But it's untrue, and my friend is willing to take any and all tests out there to prove as much, as the courts are refusing to do them, yet are going with his statement?!

She was going to pay privately for drug tests, and do them in the presence of her solicitor or a court official, at a time specified by them with no advanced warning, but she can't afford to now.

Even her first court date, she got served with the court papers at 6pm on a Thursday night, to appear in court at noon the next day. She couldn't get ANY legal advice or even support in court for that first hearing, due to lack of notice.

Her ex turned up at the Court with an 18 PAGE statement. She had two pages, hastily written, with no help, overnight. The courts seem to have taken his statement as Gospel, and her response to it wasn't even allowed at the second hearing.

They just seem so biased against her.

The first judge (from the first hearing) is well known locally as a misogynistic arsehole, so to ensure she didn't come in front of him again, she got the case transferred to County Court.

Thing is, at the second hearing, the judge told her that he couldn't say the previous judge was wrong, so even though he disagreed with the Occupation order her ex had been granted at the first hearing, and overturned that, he said he had to "fudge it" a little bit, and he put in place the current order.

Why in the name of hell can't she have a right to a peaceful life in her own home? And her older DC's? Surely this breaches THEIR rights?

Why isn't her ex expected to find somewhere to live and take his DC's there? How can anyone expect this to go on?!

Throughout, from the moment he left. He is staying with my friend's 85yo next door neighbour. When I go round my friend's house, there is a low gate between the two gardens, and if my friend dares to laugh with her friends, in her own garden, he stands at the gate, folding his arms and frowning.

Then the youngest two run over to him, and he picks them up and puts them in the NDN's garden. So she can't even have her contact time with him unmolested.

Last time I was there, he tried to pick a row with me when he had done that, with a "Do you have a fucking problem with me holding my kids". I bit my tongue for my friend's sake, and turned my back on him, despite him getting louder and more aggressive, I didn't respond.

Later that same day, he leant over the gate to put some grapes in his 4yo's pocket. My friend's 10yo was passing her 4yo sibling the doll that had been asked for, and he hissed and shouted at her "Get off xxxx, you can't touch her, get away from her". And it was so vehement and NASTY, the tone of voice he used.

I was horrified at him talking to a 10yo like that, and started to go out to give him a piece of my mind (verbal abuse towards me I can ignore, towards a child I can't), but he ran off before I got out there.

He is a nasty piece of work, and the courts seem to be buying his Mr Charming act.

This is why if someone told me they had a crazy ex, I would take time to get to know them.

He is well practiced and now you see why his ex was driven crazy.

I had false allegations made about me to court, no legal representative due to not being able to afford. Courts and cafcass are a crock of shit, something you will see. Its all about pieces of paper and bullshit, as these people don't make proper accurate notes. Once I complained the kids were untidy with crap on the floor, report stared my home was full of feaceas, I meant toys etc. Due to their preconceived ideas about you, they twist things to fit their theory.

Oh, I know how rubbish crapcass can be, but she is laying everything into the fact that she believes truth and honesty will win.

The courts seem to be taking absolutely NO notice of the effects of all this on her older two DC's, leaving them sofa surfing for half of each week.

Because this ex isn't the father of the older two DC's, the courts have refused to appoint a Guardian Ad Litem to represent THEIR best interests! I thought one had to be appointed to ALL DC's in the family?!

And she had NO CLUE about his ex, they were divorced over 10 years before he met, and his other DC were adults before they even got together.

So she genuinely had NO idea. He was lively towards her until she had the 4yo, then it changed overnight.

She has said that she feels like he used her as a rent-a-womb.

Judges and cafcass as tools of my abusive ex caused more damage to me and my kids than should be allowed, its legalised abuse, no one says sorry we got it wrong after, they pat each other on the back they damaged people its ok though they didn't loose their job in a media storm and no one will blame them for abusing people under the umbrella of guilty until they can invent guilt.

Your friends deluded along with most of the population to think there is such a thing as justice.

I lived to perfection, danced to others timed for two years, I am full of anger years later, as I still deal with the crap from those false allegations.

Have zero to do with that subspecies of human psychopathic ex of hers, their brains have GAPS where empathy is, they don't have the same emotions as regular humans, they are often smarter and charming and different and enjoy inflicting pain.

They can breed with humans and appear human, when they are scanned a human hunk of their brain is missing.

I'm inclined to agree with you, MrsJR. I'll ask you how you are on the other thread!

So her solicitor is now getting on with getting a non molestation order etc you said? That's good, at last. How old are all 4 children? The house is rented and no one seems to have a job. The younger two may be too young to choose with which parent to live but a court may not want to separate them from the older two.

She must not move out. The problem at the moment is that the father is having more contact with the chdlren than she is whichi s going to reinforce that pattern (which of course is not a problem at all if he is okay - no reason under the sun fathers not mothers should have children living with them) but if he is a bad parent then he is going to use that more contact with him to his advantage. Could the older childre not be used as spies and record his worst words adn actions on their camera phones as evidence?

They have been told not to record him, even when he records them. Anyway, older DC's refuse to stay in the house when he is there.

I would say my friend has more time with them, Thursday afternoon till Monday morning they are with my friend, they are with him from Monday morning till Thursday afternoon.

Before the Summer Holidays, he was having them every weekday from 8.45am-3.45pm, my friend had the rest of the time, but he had every other weekend.

But that was ordered by the first misogynistic bastard judge, who devoured my friend's Ex's 18 page statement, and refused to let her give her response to it.

Even though she has now had 3 court dates, they have STILL refused to let her speak or make a statement. They haven't even looked at her reams of paperwork against his 18 pages of allegations.

I've seen it. It's all crap. Things like she never buys nappies for the baby - that's funny, I saw her receipts (she's been keeping all her receipts since all this started), and she is buying over 240 nappies a month for one DC in nappies, as he changes him every 30 minutes on the dot when he has him, and every 60 when he is asleep.

There were allegations that she was beating her older DC. I think a 15yo and a 10yo would have told someone by now, or someone would have seen marks on them.

He claims that she is violent towards him - so why when they last broke up did she manage to get an injunction AGAINST him after he left her with a black eye?!

He claims that she doesn't love her 17mo boy. Which is odd as he is doted on by her and her whole family for being the first boy born in 3 generations on her mum's side!

He claims that she is an alcoholic because he found A bottle of wine in her recycling bin.

He almost got her Income Support stopped as well as the Tax Credits and Child Benefits, because when letters were coming through on 'his' days in the house, he was taking them, writing not known at this address on them, and posting them back.

She ended up doing her Tax Credits renewal late because she never got the form from them.

She now has to send ALL her post to her Mum's house, so is having to pay for redirection (I paid this time though).

He is claiming that she is on crack, which she SO isn't.

He is claiming that it is dangerous for her to have a single ring swimming pool for the toddler and 4yo, despite the fact that she sits IN it when the toddler is in there, and she empties it as soon as they are finished in there.

He calls the police when her 15yo has ANYONE to sleep over. He claims it is disgusting to have mixed sex sleepovers, despite the fact that the boys are downstairs and the girls upstairs. The 15yo will be 16 in a matter of a couple of months, and the ONE boy that slept round is openly gay, so a night of teenage debauchery is slightly unlikely...

There were plenty more made up spurious allegations in the paperwork.

It's all bollocks.

He stares out of the window of the house he is dossing in (my friend's NDN), with a little pad where he writes down who enters the house when he is not there, and what time they arrive and what time they leave.

He manages to be wherever the 15yo goes, too.

He's a fucking nut job ,stalking the 15 year old dd ? .

.

I hope that creature , gets a bit of his own medicine . I'm 90% sure that one day he will mess with the wrong person and end up very very sorry for himself.

I also hope that the op gets a decent judge that listens to her and sorts this mess .

Am I the only one who thinks WTAF about him staying with a neighbour . Op you need some big scary looking blokes to stay over and be your bodyguard when in that house.

I ment ops friend , you know what I mean ? .

She needs a very good solicitor who knows the system. Luckily I think you said her solicitor is at last taking some action so may be that will help.

The neighbour has spoken to my friend - he gave her ex 2 weeks to leave 6 weeks ago. He's still there. Poor old bloke feels like he can't get around his own home in peace.

I asked my friend if she had thought about calling Adult Social Care about her ex taking advantage of the old bloke next door, but apparently her solicitor has advised her not to because if ASC go round and the old bloke for whatever reason says he's ok having her ex there, that it will look like 'tit for tat' on the courtroom as her ex has called Social Services on her too.

I personally don't rate her solicitor much, even though she is supposedly one of the best family law solicitors in our town. I feel that due to her reputation, she has taken on too much, and can't give my friend the time my friend needs to be successful. She keeps sending assistants who don't seem to be doing everything they should.

Apparently at the last hearing, my friend SHOULD have had the opportunity to put her case across, to read out her statement at least, and the Barrister's assistant didn't insist on that. OK my friend's ACTUAL solicitor was annoyed about that, but maybe if she had been there herself, my friend might have had a chance to be heard.

Thing is, there's not enough time between hearings for my friend to find a new solicitor and get them up to speed on the case, and she has also been told that it might look bad on her if she dumps her solicitor now.

She has another hearing on Wednesday, and we are hoping that they both get cross examined - my friend says this will show her ex for who he really is, and it will give her the chance to get her statement across.

Kids are being seen by CAFCASS on Monday. My friend is worried because her ex is taking their 4yo, and she is worried that he will tell her what to say.

The older two will also be seen. That CAFCASS officer will go to court on Wed. Yet CAFCASS can't do the final report until NOVEMBER. The Wed date is MEANT to be the final court date...

If the final CAFCASS report states something different to the original cross examination in court of the CAFCASS officer, there won't be much my friend will be able to do, as the final court date will be over and done with.

Why haven't CAFCASS got their finger out and seen the DC's ages ago when this first started?

Don't they get that these unnecessary delays are NOT in the best interests of either my friend's older DC OR her younger two DC's?!

And it shocks me that in three court dates, over a 3 month+ period, my friend has not been allowed to respond to the 18 pages of allegations her ex has made against her.

CAFCASS are good at seeing through things - also your friend needs to insist on the actual solicitor being there it's too complex for an assistant - they can't have a final hearing without. The cafcass report but it's not unusual for them to arrive the day of the court hearing.

Sounds like an absolute nightmare.