Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Legal matters

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you have any legal concerns we suggest you consult a solicitor.

Original poster

My son's mother wants to move abroad for a year and take him.

237 replies

Snurt · 09/05/2011 12:31

Hi, just wondering if the collective wisdom of mumsnet could offer me some advice, hopefully it won't matter that technically speaking I'm more of a dad than a mum!

My son is 9, I was there when he was born and have been fully involved in his entire life, despite never having been in a relationship with his mother. Current arrangements are that he spends 5 nights out of every 14 with me. His mother has since married and has two other much younger children with her husband. Her husband's work want to send him to the US for a chunk of time, at the very minimum a year but it sounds like it could easily become a year and a half or two years. She wants to go, with all the children, offering skype and school holiday visits back. I am, as you'd imagine, not happy about this, both for the disruption of his schooling and my losing regular contact with him.

I know that I can legally prevent them from taking my son, as I have parental responsibility, unless they get a court order - what are the chances that they could get a court order in this sort of situation? They would cite his relationship with his half-brothers, and that his step-father would lose his job if he doesn't go (I don't know if this is true but it's how it's been presented to me).

Should I be looking to get a prohibited steps order, or is my having parental responsibility and making clear my lack of consent for him to go enough? We have so far managed to deal with things without involving lawyer/courts, so there are no residency orders in place.

Any advice on the legalities or feedback on whether my stance is reasonable or not welcomed.

OP posts:
Swedes2 · 09/05/2011 22:02

expat - it's nothing to do with shiny halos and all to do with facing up to the fact that when you're a broken family, the lives of the protagonists don't go in the same direction at the same speed with the same goals even. You'll be much more effective coparents if you are mutually supportive.

CaptainBarnacles · 09/05/2011 22:02

I agree with expat, colditz and hulababy.

OP, this is a shit situation. I really feel for you. If I was in your shoes I would be devastated and want to fight it. I would also be extremely concerned about one year turning into two - or perhaps more.

Your son's mother should not be putting you in this situation.

I am no longer with my DD's dad. I accept that we need to stay living in the same place until she is much older, if both of us want to have a meaningful relationship with her. That means I have to put certain plans, career moves etc. on hold - so be it. My DD's relationship with her dad is infinitely more important.

Annoying as it is, you just don't have the same freedom of movement if there are step-kids involved.

expatinscotland · 09/05/2011 22:03

Again, Swedes, it doesn't strike me as very mutually supportive is it to remove a child thousands of miles away from one parent for a job.

NellieForbush · 09/05/2011 22:05

Completely agree with expat and am really shocked at the attitude of some posters who seem to think you should just roll over and let them take your child away because it could be a great opportunity and you might wreck it.

Or he may not like being uprooted from friends/school/country and leaving his Dad (and presumably other family) behind.

I would fight to the death.

DuelingFanjo · 09/05/2011 22:06

"I don't think it would be fair to put him in a position of having to choose between seeing me and seeing his mother/step-father/brothers"

isn't this what you would be doing and more by seeking court involvement.

flyingspaghettimonster · 09/05/2011 22:08

Bear in mind summer hole in the USA last 3 months; so you cOuld get him for all that time... Skype and weekly letters would be a lovely way to show him you care.

I think you are right to worry they would stay longer, though. We came here four years ago and certainly don't want to move back, given a choice. The schools, friendliness, standard of living etc that our kids get here is better than they could have had in theuk. They love it here; you ought to at least consider letting him go.

Hulababy · 09/05/2011 22:08

DuelingFanjo - surely the mum and stepdad are also doing this, by even mootng the possibility of going abroad. They are, after all, the ones who have brought this whole situation up in the first place.

I kind of feel tht by doing this the mum and step dad are telling the child and his dad that their relationship is not as important as the relationship between mum, stepdad and said child.

expatinscotland · 09/05/2011 22:09

'isn't this what you would be doing and more by seeking court involvement.'

Um, no. It would be preventing the child from being removed against the parents' wishes, a request likely to be accorded as the OP has a long-demonstrated, concrete relationship with the child and the job is optional.

It's like they're having to go there for life-saving medical treatment.

Hulababy · 09/05/2011 22:10

flyingspaghettimonster - would you have gone and left your children in the UK and been prepared to see them only on holidays or via Skype? Because the OP isnt in your situation. he is the one who will be without his child, and the child will be without his dad.

expatinscotland · 09/05/2011 22:11

'Skype and weekly letters would be a lovely way to show him you care. '

He's not a grandparent. He's the father.

I initially came here for 6 months.

I've been here 9 years.

DuelingFanjo · 09/05/2011 22:13

oh yes, I agree he is right to want the child to stay - of course. I was just confused by his logic. He says he didn't want to make his son choose but surely it is much better to first seek the child's opinion on things before going to get a court order?

QuintessentialPains · 09/05/2011 22:13

Yes, and we initially came to Norway for 2 years, all of us I should add, but our return to the uk has been extended, so if you do make an international move, it might be hard to get back. Unless work forces you, rather than just give you the option. It is hard to unsettle settled kids.

MollieO · 09/05/2011 22:20

Why don't you have shared custody? By that I mean 50/50. I think you have to be selfless and consider, objectively, what would be right for your Ds. I appreciate that could be hard to do. At the moment your posts read as if you are more concerned with your own wants and needs than your ds's. Being a parent means always putting your dcs needs ahead of yours even if it may be to your detriment.

expatinscotland · 09/05/2011 22:20

'He says he didn't want to make his son choose but surely it is much better to first seek the child's opinion on things before going to get a court order?'

Yes, and he did, and the child, who is wise beyond his years, said he was not in a position to decide.

So it's up to the mother to pull her head out and grow up and realise her son's relationship with his father is more important than her husband's job and a weekly Skype and some poxy holidays.

Either way, I totally agree with ChippinIn's last two paragraphs, I'd be on the horn to a solicitor tomorrow to at least get swotted up on how to prevent the child's being removed just in case because knowledge is power.

expatinscotland · 09/05/2011 22:23

I find it pretty detrimental to a child's emotional well-being to step back and let myself, as a parent, effectively become a satellite relation.

I'm all about letting my children go and spread their wings. But not 5000 miles away when they're 9-years-old.

MollieO · 09/05/2011 22:26

Why should someone who has 35% of the custody have 50% of the say? Makes no sense to me. The OP's views should be considered but he doesn't, imo, have the right to dictate. As others have said what is stopping him from making the move to the US as well?

GColdtimer · 09/05/2011 22:28

Agree with expat, chippin, et al. And those of you saying the op should just accept it - would you be happy about waving your dc of to another country and another timezone for an undetermined period of time?

And well done quint for recognising op isn't your sister's ex.

RitaMorgan · 09/05/2011 22:29

How is he supposed to move to the US Mollie? You need a visa.

expatinscotland · 09/05/2011 22:30

'Why should someone who has 35% of the custody have 50% of the say? Makes no sense to me. The OP's views should be considered but he doesn't, imo, have the right to dictate. As others have said what is stopping him from making the move to the US as well?'

Because you can't divide a child into halves or thirds.

What's stopping him? Again, he's not a US national or married to one. Do you have any idea how hard it is to get a permit to live and work there if you are not in one of those two categories and don't have bags of money or a very specialised profession? And no, having your non-US citizen son there isn't a legal means to get a 'green card'.

It's not a place where you can just pick up and move.

MollieO · 09/05/2011 22:36

I'm a UK citizen and didn't have any difficulty at all getting a work visa for a job in the US (with a US employer). The OP thinks it's reasonable for his ds's stepfather to quit his job, I'm just saying that there are other ways of looking at this. The OP doesn't have equal rights imo. If he did have proper shared custody then it would be a different discussion possibly. In any event if he applies to the court I assume the judge will consider whether the child is mature enough to be involved in the decision and whatever choice made will be in the best interests of the child not the child's father.

expatinscotland · 09/05/2011 22:40

'I'm a UK citizen and didn't have any difficulty at all getting a work visa for a job in the US (with a US employer). '

You're a lawyer, IIRC, hence 'very specialised profession'. If you're an Average Joe, there's no chance in hell of that happening.

And again, in this financial climate, I doubt it's easy anymore.

Snorbs · 09/05/2011 22:42

There is no residency order in place. Both parents have PR. Therefore, in the eyes of the law, both parents effectively share custody. That's what PR is all about. It is entirely possible that if the OP took this to court six months ago, before any discussion of moving to the US, he'd get a shared residency order even if that didn't include 50:50 care.

You are perfectly at liberty to think that your opinion holds more weight than the law, MollieO, but I'd suggest you'd need a stronger argument than what you have presented so far to carry it off.

MollieO · 09/05/2011 22:45

Not that specialised - have you seen how many lawyers there are in the US?! The OP could go for three months on a standard tourist visa. Afaik anyone can get those.

I sincerely hope that the OP does step back and think about his ds's wants and needs rather than his own. He only found out yesterday so hasn't had time to reflect.

expatinscotland · 09/05/2011 22:47

'Not that specialised - have you seen how many lawyers there are in the US?! '

Depends on what kind of lawyer you are.

MollieO · 09/05/2011 22:50

Snorbs I'm not a family lawyer so I await to be put right that family courts would consider a father's needs above that of the child. That wasn't the position when I spent time studying and practising family law but that was many years ago and I appreciate the law may have changed completely in that time (although as nothing changes that quickly in most areas of law I'd be surprised!).

Swipe left for the next trending thread