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Original poster

My son's mother wants to move abroad for a year and take him.

237 replies

Snurt · 09/05/2011 12:31

Hi, just wondering if the collective wisdom of mumsnet could offer me some advice, hopefully it won't matter that technically speaking I'm more of a dad than a mum!

My son is 9, I was there when he was born and have been fully involved in his entire life, despite never having been in a relationship with his mother. Current arrangements are that he spends 5 nights out of every 14 with me. His mother has since married and has two other much younger children with her husband. Her husband's work want to send him to the US for a chunk of time, at the very minimum a year but it sounds like it could easily become a year and a half or two years. She wants to go, with all the children, offering skype and school holiday visits back. I am, as you'd imagine, not happy about this, both for the disruption of his schooling and my losing regular contact with him.

I know that I can legally prevent them from taking my son, as I have parental responsibility, unless they get a court order - what are the chances that they could get a court order in this sort of situation? They would cite his relationship with his half-brothers, and that his step-father would lose his job if he doesn't go (I don't know if this is true but it's how it's been presented to me).

Should I be looking to get a prohibited steps order, or is my having parental responsibility and making clear my lack of consent for him to go enough? We have so far managed to deal with things without involving lawyer/courts, so there are no residency orders in place.

Any advice on the legalities or feedback on whether my stance is reasonable or not welcomed.

OP posts:
Original poster
Snurt · 09/05/2011 17:52

I would love to avoid the courts. As I said, so far we've managed fine without them, and I would be willing to relocate to some degree to stay close to him should they move, something we had already discussed before this came up due to secondary school issues. Relocating to another country is a little different however.

I have gone 9 years with having effectively shared custody with my son, you seem quite blasé about expecting me to be happy with just giving that up due to other people's life decisions. I'm curious, if I were a mother rather than a father, would you have the same opinion?

There is no axe-beating going on, it's not about her, it's about my relationship with my son, and what is best for him. I am giving this substantial thought, if not I wouldn't have posted here canvassing opinions in the first place.

And holidays, however long, are no replacement for regular weekly contact.

OP posts:
Didyouever · 09/05/2011 17:53

What does your son want to do?

juneau · 09/05/2011 17:57

God, what a difficult situation! Having lived in both the US and the UK I will say a few things, but I'll steer clear of giving advice as I don't feel qualified to:

  1. Skype is no substitute for face-to-face time and the time difference can make calls difficult to organise. Having said this, they'll be 5-8 hours behind, so you'll be able to call him in the evening and he'll be home from school.

  2. Work contracts get renewed/extended. They're saying it's 1-2 years now, but what guarantee do you have? Your son could end up in the US for years, even if your ex doesn't intend for that to happen right now.

  3. A year or two is a long time in the life of a 9-year-old.

  4. Is your son excited about going to live in America? I would've been at his age. Will he resent you if you throw a spanner in the works?

Original poster
Snurt · 09/05/2011 17:58

No, all family ties are equally important, what I would propose as the ideal solution is that they don't go, not that they go and he stays with me. Any other solution than that seems pretty horrific for one or other person involved.

My son wants the adults involved to decide what's going on so he doesn't have to - he recognises that it's an impossible situation. He would probably on the one hand prefer to stay at his school with his friends, and on the other hand prefer to stay with his brothers, you could probably get different answers depending how you phrased the question. I've no intention of putting him in the middle in that sort of a way.

OP posts:
StewieGriffinsMom · 09/05/2011 18:00

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

QuintessentialPains · 09/05/2011 18:02

You are between a rock and a hard place anyway. There WILL be resentment, from all sides, if you cause a ruction over this. You are in a strange position of power, as you now can decide that another man shall give up his job, his career, and family earning potential. This in turn may affect your son, and his family.

Hulababy · 09/05/2011 18:07

I am interested to hear so any people suggesting the op is selfish or shold just agree to this.

Imagine fr a moment at this was your child and you were going to be separated from them for 1-2 years with limited direct contact.

I personally cannot imagine how awful it would be for me to not see my dd for such lengthy periods of time. It would break my heart. And I can't see my dd, also 9y, dealing with it very well either.

Tbh I am not sure I could stand by and let it just happen.

QuintessentialPains · 09/05/2011 18:08

But what is the option?

juneau · 09/05/2011 18:09

Quintessential is right - there will be resentment. But if your son goes to live in America for one or two years and then your ex's partner's contract gets extended to five years (it happens all the time - believe me - I have several friends who are DYING to come home and they're stuck), then before you know it your English 9-year-old will be an American teenager.

Didyouever · 09/05/2011 18:14

How many people on here would agree to their child going to live in America with ex and his new wife and family?

wentshopping · 09/05/2011 18:14

On American school holidays - depends where you are in US, and if you go to a US school or an International/British one. British ones follow UK curriculum , and generally keep UK-style holidays. However, in Texas, where we are, the school year is: Summer 11 weeks off, go back to school in August; 1 day off in September, 3 days for Thanksgiving in November, barely 2 weeks off for Christmas, 1 week for Spring Break in March, then 1 day for Easter, breaking up for the summer in the first week of June. So, there is not a lot of lee-way for extended trips back to the UK during the school year, but possibly do-able if you were making the trips over there. ( I believe we get the same number of weeks off over the year as the UK, but concentrated into the summer).
Agree you are in such a difficult position. What would you do if the job-move was to the farthest point of the UK from you? Just a thought... Best wishes for whatever you decide.

colditz · 09/05/2011 18:31

Actually, I'd kick up absolute fucking stink.

Fuck the mother's husband and fuck his job. His job would not give him the right to effectively kidnap my son to a country so far away that visitation to me would be like being sent to a relative's for the holidays. There is no way in Hell my child would be leaving the country.

bemybebe · 09/05/2011 18:58

With the benefit of high insight I would have been supporting my dh to fight for his 4 dc (i did not). And he does have a fantastic relationship with them as do I. Only it does not replace personal contact and do not let anyone kid you it will.

scaryteacher · 09/05/2011 20:49

Given the normal reaction to Dads who do not maintain contact with their kids, I would have thought that the OP deserved some measure of support for the regular contact with his ds, and the fact that he doesn't want it to stop, and that he is upset at the thought of his ds relocating to another country. It's not as if the US is a Eurostar away, it's time and expense to get there, plus accommodation whilst he's there to visit his ds.

OP I don't know what to advise, but would be reluctant to accede to this move without a legal framework firmly in place for visitation and a firm date for a return to the UK. Jobs do get extended, dh has now been in Belgium for 7 years, and I have been here for 5, when he was only expecting to be here for 2.5 years. Ds was 8 when dh originally was posted here, he is 16 in October. Are you willing to miss that much potentially of your ds's life, and does ds's Mum actually realise what a big ask this is?

Swedes2 · 09/05/2011 20:56

"I have gone 9 years with having effectively shared custody with my son ..."

5 nights out of 14 isn't equally shared custody though. It's yer standard Friday through to Monday once a fortnight and every wednesday for a quick tea and a sleepover.

Needanewname · 09/05/2011 20:57

OP I can;t offer any advice, but I do hope you manage to sort this out amicably for everyone involved.

I am also shocked at some of the opinions on here slating the OP. He sounds as if he is a good dad wanting the best for his son not trying to cause trouble.

QuintessentialPains · 09/05/2011 20:59

From a mathematical perspective, it is 28%. So, the childs mum has him 72% of the time.

Swedes2 · 09/05/2011 21:00

I'm a bit nippy about this subject because my ex husband kicked up a fuss when I moved within the UK. He lived in Russia at the time. Hmm

QuintessentialPains · 09/05/2011 21:02

My sisters ex kicked up a fuss about the move to Spain, even though he lived in a different part of the country, 2 hours away by plane.....

Hulababy · 09/05/2011 21:04

TBH I think that is irrelevant on the whole. This is a dad who wants to see his son. It is a dad who has a right to see his son, and a little boy who has a right to see his dad.

There is no way I would want my DD living in another country, so far away from me. I would want to stop that from happening. It would break my heart to be seperated from DD for so long.

Didyouever · 09/05/2011 21:06

So is it dead-beat dads or decent dads what people want?

I don't see how people can want fathers to take a responsible role and then say by the way we're off to America tough luck.

expatinscotland · 09/05/2011 21:08

'4) that you also go to the Us, Snurt.'

On what visa? Do you have any idea how hard it is to get permission to go there to live and work unless you've in a very skilled profession or married to a US citizen.

I wonder how many people would be jumping on calling the OP selfish and to let it go if the OP were a woman?

colditz · 09/05/2011 21:09

Swedes, the op isn't your ex and doesn't behave anything like him.

And 5 nights a fortnight is a LOT. It is far too much to truthfully say that moving the child to a country thousands of miles away wouldn't matter and is fair and right. It's not fair, and it's not right, and only a selfish bitch would consider stopping this level of enjoyed access because she has a new husband who wants a new job.

Beamur · 09/05/2011 21:11

You have my sympathy Snurt.
FWIW, my DP and his ex agreed when they split that they would remain living near to each other for the kids benefit.
Ex wife was interested in applying for a job in Scotland and sounded out DP how he felt about this. He asked me, I said I would not move, so this went back to ex and she respected our preferred choice to stay where we all are.
Shame not all people can be as mature and reasonable, but I suppose your ex's new husband may not have much of a choice - if however, he has sought this job without considering the effect it would have on his stepchild, that is pretty selfish.

expatinscotland · 09/05/2011 21:12

And even this 9-year-old recognises that children that age should not be making life-changing decisions about their future.