Massive Parent Issues HELP!

[onlyhereonce]

Hi,

Where do i start? I'll just try and give you an idea of the situation and then let you know the problem. I am married to X (name held for privacy reasons) (been together 7.5yrs), and have 3 lovely children who we both adore (5,3 and 1). We are fine with his parents and his side of the family, my nan and grandad and brother and have a good relationship with them, as do the kids. All my auntys and uncles have washed their hands of me due to being fed a load or rubbish by my parents.The problem is my parents.

We have had 4 years of hell with them ever since Child 1 was born. (first 2 years were manageable). The problem is that they are very controlling, judgemental, ignorant to our wishes, and seem to love making life hard if we dont adhere to their every whim.

Because we are very hands on parents, dont palm them off all the time, dont go out alot as we prefer to be at home with the kids, they resent this as they crave having the kids all the time.

Theres been so much hassle it would take me hours to write but it includes my dad threatening X over the phone twice, whispering things in the kids ears, trying to brainwash my kids into thinking my side of the family are only the important side, constantly undermining and shouting over us when we are trying to guide our children. My mum works in the education system and since doing that has totally changed. She now thinks she knows the lot, seems to think she knows everybody and has more rights than anybody else, including us as parents. It took a bad turn 3 xmas's ago when they purposely withheld the kids xmas presents as we were living with X parents at the time due to our house being renovated. They were only prepared to let the kids open them a their house, which totally went against the whole santa thing. When we let them know how unhappy we were it took a bad turn from then on. We have been blackened to people. slagged off, been called "fu**g crap parents" in front of the children etc etc

We had to get married abroad instead of here due to the hassle they would have caused. We have had my sister turning up at my son's school playground calling me all the names under the sun, crouching down to my eldest and saying "aunty && loves you, this is your mum and dad stopping me seeing you".

Recently we have got a harassment order on them and my sister as they will not leave us alone. We have made our wishes in writing that we no longer want any contact of any sort as it is damaging the children. They have come down at 6:30pm, knowing full well the kids are still up and caused holy hell, hurling abuse, shouting, accusing of all sorts in front of the children, passed things to me through other people, text numerous times with abusive texts and left abusive voicemails so we have called the police 3 times now.

The last time the police officer spoke to my dad she said how difficult it is to speak to him (well we know that anyway) and he was seeking legal advice to get access to see the kids).

My parents have started telling everybody that X is conrtolling me and very manipulative, which is total nonsense. Even my grandparents who we are on good terms with know that not to be true and is probably why they have not got involved and have a good relationship with X.

We are in turmoil to the thought of them going to court and geting access as this will damage my children and their future, not including ruining our quality of life. My eldest has been very touchy and loving (especially with his dad and telling him he loves him like 50 times a day) and i feel this is due to him hearing rubbish like "your f***g crap parents" as he came up to me only a few days ago and said " mum i dont think your rubbish parents".

I could cry, im at the end of my patience and dont know what to do. We are seriously thinking of moving away if they do get an access order as i know this will cause massive upset for us and especially the kids.

Anybody out there who has experienced this or can help?

Thanks

Amy

Hi,

We have had another letter today off CASCASS.

They are sayng they want to speak to us and offer advice and they will need to come to see our eldest as he is over 5 etc etc

Are we within our rights to decline CASCASS from getting involved? We have tried to protect our children from all of this and for this organisation to ask our chld about it all and to ask him his wishes is totally wrong in my opinion.

If i decline will it go against me at court?

Amy

I meant CAFCASS

If you refuse to co-operate with CAFCASS they will report that to the court. That doesn't necessarily mean you will lose but it certainly won't help your case. Given the things you have reported your children as saying I would have thought that CAFCASS seeing your eldest would be to your advantage.

Hi,

i'll give that some thought. We have got an appointment with the solicitor at 3:30pm today so will update here the outcome of that meeting. I just so desperately dont want the kids to have to go through grilling from someone when they and us have done nothing wrong. Also the internet is awash with bad reviews of how cafcass have handled things. I dont want an inexperienced officer or someone with a power trip jeopardising our case.

Amy

Hi,

Seen the solicitor. He said the longer this takes the better for us as its been 7 months since the last contact now and with cafcass taking upto 3 months plus the other waiting around it will be 12 months or more before the final hearing. He said it will be harder for them to regain contact due to us saying "the kids are managing fine without you in their life"

He also said no law in the land would grant them a PSO from stopping us moving and we wouldnt even have to tell them about the move. Also said that no doctor, council etc could tell them where we have moved to either.

So ultimately we are going to give this our all but in the event of a bad decision we will move.

Amy

Message for PRH47BRIDGE...

You said in a previous message...

"Your parents will have to start by applying to the courts for permission to apply for a contact order. To succeed they would need to show that, prior to you stopping contact, they had a meaningful relationship with your children which significantly benefitted their lives. The court should consider whether continuing contact with the child will damage your family.

Based on what you have posted here I think you would have a reasonable chance of blocking any application by your parents."

They didnt have a meaningful relationship as the arguments started really bad at april 07 , when my eldest was only just over 2. SInce then the relationship has been very rocky and they have seen the kids at most once a fortnight for an hour or so.

Surely the court should NOT allow them leave as they cant prove otherwise and they certainly havent significantly benefit their lives.

Also , given them lying under oath (which i can see this happening as otherwise it would damage her own case) could i suggest a lie detector? I would be willing to pay for both theirs and ours to prove what they accuse us of is not true but i know her lies would come out then?

Amy

Re the leave question - they will be granted leave. The test for leave is not whether they have a reasonable prospect of getting contact. Seldom will grandparents be denied leave, and usually if they are, it is an appealable mistake.

I still find this impossible to digest. My flesh and blood yet some stranger who thinks he knows whats best for my children than me and their dad gets to decide our fate. I see my children day in day out, gave birth to them, love them, care for them, have their best interests at heart but arent "allowed" to bring them up as i see fit.

Just totally wrong.

Coming to this late as I've been out all day.

You are assuming that the court will find against you. As Resolution says, it is likely that your parents will get leave to apply for a contact order but that does not mean they will actually get a contact order. It simply gets them to the next stage. I remain of the view that they are unlikely to get a contact order based on the information you have posted here.

And as Rhadegunde says, don't bother mentioning lie detectors. It won't do you any good. Just make sure you have a diary of events and any other supporting evidence - emails, letters, etc.

Hi onlyhereonce

I've been through something similar which I won't go into for fear of outing myself. But, all ended well and the process actually freed my family from the constant threat that was there.

First, you need to take a long, deep, calming breath.

Then, you need to sit and write down everything that has happened to date in a clear manner. Know your dates, know what was said and everything around that - base it on fact, rather than your emotions. Print out any e-mails or any other evidence you have of their bad behaviour. Do not use petty examples of their behaviour - the 22 presents probably won't help you much so I would avoid that. You need to be clear that you biggest concern is that you consider these people to represent a threat to your children - if not physically then certainly mentally.

It really will be OK but just make sure you have a strong case ready. And don't waste your energy questioning the authority of the court - save that for talking about with your husband. I know you're just sounding off but make sure you are respectful to all officials dealing in this case - especially CAFCASS.

It is very hard to let someone else take the reins in your life but you must have faith in the system protecting your children. Try not to read too many horror stories.

Best of luck.

Hi,

Thanks for the advice. I know im sounding off , im just so fed up of this whole thing. I have dedicated my life to my children as my husband has and it seems like we are under the spotlight when we have done nothing wrong.

Perhaps when its all over and if it does go our way, i will have faith in the system. Im just mad my son has to be involved in this at all.

Amy

Hi,

This is for PRH47BRIDGE or Resolution. Where could i find out the checklist the judge will have to work to to decide on whether to grant them access or not?

Or do you have it?

Amy

While it is unlikey, as others have said, that your children will be forced by the courts to have contact with their grandparents, I think you need to tread a little carefully. You are coming over as a bit aggressive and self-righteous, and if you give the court officials or Cafcass the impression that you know best and everyone else is stupid and wrong, it is not going to help you.

Hi,

I know i am , but im just so angry my kids have got tp be put through more heartache because they want to score points.

Point taken

Amy

This is a good summary

www.cafcass.gov.uk/the_law_about_children/contact_and_residence.aspx

From the Cafcass website.

Just to repeat though - based on caselaw as it is at present, they will get leave to issue an application for contact.

So basically from what i understand from reading that, as long as we have no issues with ourselves and the kids arent known by being on an at risk register or similar then we should be pretty much successful at stopping this contact order?

Amy

It's not that simple.

Surely your solicitor can answer these questions for you? A message board is no place to be getting anything other than basic signposting advice.

Right ok

Just to update.

We didnt oppose leave but did oppose any form of contact. Now we have a hearing end of next month for a child resolution (something like that) before starting the whole cafcass process.

Amy

To add...

They have asked for weekly 1-2hrs contact and once a month to take them out for a day trip.

We never had that much contact even when thinks werent so bad and also my husbands parents dont see them that often as our routine has always been every fortnight routine , visit grandparents.

I think this is an obvious fingers up and you WILL do what we say by them.

Amy

I have no experience of this but can imagine how unsettled it's making you feel. Hope it all works out for the best

Since mentioning to my eldest that someone may be coming to talk to them about their nanna and grandad he has wet the bed every night since. Coincidence??

Why did you have to mention it so soon? Cafcass are not against you and your children are going to pick up on all this stress and worry and naturally be getting worried and stressed about this now.

For your sake and your childrens you need to calm down. Court can be a slow and laborious process sometimes which means you could potentially have a long and stressful experience. Your children don't need to feel that way for that long as well.

We were advised to have a chat with my eldest by the solicitor. Hes not stupid, is very bright for his age and has picked up on all of the tensions and hassle anyway. By us talking to him about it i can at least put his mind to rest that its not something hes done or naughty.

Amy