Massive Parent Issues HELP!

[onlyhereonce]

Hi,

Where do i start? I'll just try and give you an idea of the situation and then let you know the problem. I am married to X (name held for privacy reasons) (been together 7.5yrs), and have 3 lovely children who we both adore (5,3 and 1). We are fine with his parents and his side of the family, my nan and grandad and brother and have a good relationship with them, as do the kids. All my auntys and uncles have washed their hands of me due to being fed a load or rubbish by my parents.The problem is my parents.

We have had 4 years of hell with them ever since Child 1 was born. (first 2 years were manageable). The problem is that they are very controlling, judgemental, ignorant to our wishes, and seem to love making life hard if we dont adhere to their every whim.

Because we are very hands on parents, dont palm them off all the time, dont go out alot as we prefer to be at home with the kids, they resent this as they crave having the kids all the time.

Theres been so much hassle it would take me hours to write but it includes my dad threatening X over the phone twice, whispering things in the kids ears, trying to brainwash my kids into thinking my side of the family are only the important side, constantly undermining and shouting over us when we are trying to guide our children. My mum works in the education system and since doing that has totally changed. She now thinks she knows the lot, seems to think she knows everybody and has more rights than anybody else, including us as parents. It took a bad turn 3 xmas's ago when they purposely withheld the kids xmas presents as we were living with X parents at the time due to our house being renovated. They were only prepared to let the kids open them a their house, which totally went against the whole santa thing. When we let them know how unhappy we were it took a bad turn from then on. We have been blackened to people. slagged off, been called "fu**g crap parents" in front of the children etc etc

We had to get married abroad instead of here due to the hassle they would have caused. We have had my sister turning up at my son's school playground calling me all the names under the sun, crouching down to my eldest and saying "aunty && loves you, this is your mum and dad stopping me seeing you".

Recently we have got a harassment order on them and my sister as they will not leave us alone. We have made our wishes in writing that we no longer want any contact of any sort as it is damaging the children. They have come down at 6:30pm, knowing full well the kids are still up and caused holy hell, hurling abuse, shouting, accusing of all sorts in front of the children, passed things to me through other people, text numerous times with abusive texts and left abusive voicemails so we have called the police 3 times now.

The last time the police officer spoke to my dad she said how difficult it is to speak to him (well we know that anyway) and he was seeking legal advice to get access to see the kids).

My parents have started telling everybody that X is conrtolling me and very manipulative, which is total nonsense. Even my grandparents who we are on good terms with know that not to be true and is probably why they have not got involved and have a good relationship with X.

We are in turmoil to the thought of them going to court and geting access as this will damage my children and their future, not including ruining our quality of life. My eldest has been very touchy and loving (especially with his dad and telling him he loves him like 50 times a day) and i feel this is due to him hearing rubbish like "your f***g crap parents" as he came up to me only a few days ago and said " mum i dont think your rubbish parents".

I could cry, im at the end of my patience and dont know what to do. We are seriously thinking of moving away if they do get an access order as i know this will cause massive upset for us and especially the kids.

Anybody out there who has experienced this or can help?

Thanks

Amy

Amy

Go for it. Only you can weigh up the potential benefit of your children having a relationship with your parents against the detriment of all the trouble continuing.

I for one wouldn't want to second guess a parent in this instance. Sounds like a nightmare for you - whoever is in the wrong.

The problem with the legal process is that it will make things permanent. Once the court decides that your parents are not to access the kids it will make legal what has been going on already in the last few years- but it will not be the end of the feuding in the family, it will only make things worse.

Have you considered family therapy with your parents - there are deep issues here that might not be resolved, but a common ground can be found for everybody to come togather and be civil to each other. Name calling in front of the kids is totally unacceptable and any kind of violent behaviour should not be tolerated. This are things that both sides should agree on. If not, moving somewhere else might not be a bad idea after all....but think before you do anything legally!

Well , to update , we've heard nothing at all so a little confused as they will definitely be trying to get access through the courts. How long does it normally take if someone applies to the court to make an application for access? Will they hear back in days/weeks or is it months?

Amy

It can take a few weeks

Im getting really worried about all this. My eldest son asked me today something. He said "Mum , i miss XXXX which is my parents dog. He then went on to say "Why should i miss out on seeing XXXX just because of them two. (meaning my parents). I asked him what he thinks about all this and he replied "i dont want to see them again. they are naughty. they said you are crap mum and dads a crap dad and your not. your a brilliant mum and dad" Hes just turned 6 , im so upset my son has had to listen to that rubbish.

I know my sons not old enough for his opinion to be taken into consideration (as in he wanted to see them but i was digging my heels in) but if hes saying no , how could a court force my son to see them when he doesnt want to?

What i find astounding is that basically my life and my childrens life is in the hands of a total stranger that has no emotional attachment to us , yet it seems he/she has total control over who we let our kids to have contact with. If this is the case , this law needs to get real and be changed. I can understand if i had died and my husband was being harsh on purpose and they wanted contact but they are my parents. And if i dont want to see them or them to cause any more upset to my children they shouldnt even be allowed to take me to court surely???

Why should they not be allowed to take you to court? It is for the courts to judge the merits of the case. Their primary concern will be what is best for your children.

I think your parents sound bizarre and not a little scary Amy, but I think there's a bit more tit for tat going on than you realise. To be honest.

What a carry on.

prh47bridge,

Its not for the courts to judge what i feel is good and what i feel is bad for my children either. Also , if the primary concern is for our cjhildren then my eldest saying he doesnt want to see them is enough to stop them surely? If hes not old enough to be counted then me or my husband are , and we are the legal guardians of our children until they reach 18!!

Pictish, i dont call trying to brainwash my children, shouting at the top of their voices in front of the children "your fucking crap parents" , 4yrs or more of constantly undermining our wishes, telling our kids they cant do what makes them happy as they arent involved in it, slating my husband for being a bully and manipulative tit for tat. Do you???

And also how would a court be able to give them access if they arent alllowed to contact us due to their harassment order?

TBH I can't see them getting any contact other than cards and presents perhaps, which you can vet. Please don't get worried about it. It's not as if you don't have reasons fir stopping contact, and I for one am satisfied thst the judge will respect that

Hi,

Thats puts my mind at rest a little. TBH i could cope with presents and cards as i could vet them and if it started going silly again (22 presents scenario) i would just throw them away on receipt.

Amy

I agree with Resolution. I was not saying that the courts would find against you, merely that, in general, anyone can take a dispute to court no matter how little chance they have of winning.

No, it is not for the courts to judge what you feel is good or bad for your children. It is for them to judge what is actually good or bad for your children which is not necessarily they same thing. In this instance, however, I would be surprised if the court's judgement differed from yours.

Posted this on the other grandparents thread:

A timely reminder landed in my inbox this morning: here is the summary of a judgment by Nick Wall in the High Court on 1st Feb.

The court ordered supervised contact to take place between children and their paternal grandparents at a contact centre and explained the careful approach taken to such issues by the court.

Case name 1) CW (2) CHW & BAW v (1) TW (2) OW & YW (BY THEIR GUARDIAN AD LITEM, NYAS) (2011)

The court was required to determine the application of a mother (M) to commit a father (F) to prison for breach of a court order, and an application by paternal grandparents (G) for contact with the children. The children were aged 10 and 12. F and M were separated and involved in a dispute concerning contact. By order of the court, F had been banned from approaching or entering the school which his children attended. A penal notice was attached to the order. M complained that F had breached the order by sitting in his car close to the children's school. Her complaint was supported by the evidence of a police officer who had approached F. The children's guardian submitted that contact could be arranged with G but it should be supervised in a contact centre, and it had to be independent of F.

HELD: (1) There did not appear to be a formal committal summons amongst the papers in support of M's application. That was a serious procedural defect. However, M was acting in person, and the court was satisfied that F had been fully notified of the allegations against him. What mattered in committal proceedings was justice and provided procedural technicalities did not interfere with the overall justice of the case they could be overlooked. The police officer had seen and spoken to F and was unequivocal in his evidence that F had stopped his car near to the school. In those circumstances, applying the criminal standard of proof, F was in breach of the court's order and was in contempt of court. Such a breach was not trivial, and the matter was adjourned for sentencing (see paras 17-18, 22, 24-26 of judgment). (2) G believed passionately that F had been badly treated and that even if he had behaved badly he was the victim of maternal intransigence, judicial self-importance and poor judgment. In that, they were wrong. Any objective reader of the papers would come unhesitatingly to the following conclusions: (a) that F had brought the situation entirely upon himself; (b) that the judges who had dealt with the case were right, were deeply reluctant in the long term to cut the children off from contact with F, but had been left with no alternative; (c) that G, by their partisan attitude, were in danger of making the children's situation more difficult. The court fully understood that G were desperate to see their grandchildren, but that was not the test. The test was whether it was in the interests of the children for such contact to take place. G's wholesale support for F and their hostility to M were strong pointers against contact. The parents' disagreements and F's conduct were not the children's responsibility. Grandparents usually had the capacity to deliver the vital quality of normality, as they were normally above the fray. They could provide a haven for children whilst keeping them in touch with the absent side of their family. However, the question was whether G could do that. The court concluded that they could. G appeared to recognise that if contact took place at their home they would find it impossible to keep F away. G also recognised the harm that the children could suffer if they sought to proselytise F's case to them (paras 9-10, 12, 31-32). (3) A single supervised visit was to be arranged of no more than two hours at a contact centre on a date to be fixed. F should not be physically present, in the vicinity, or on the telephone. A fresh report should then be prepared so that the court could consider the matter further (para.33).

The above is what i dont want. Having regular visits at a contact centre is just making my children even more aware that there is a big problem. Although looking at the case and the other post it seems its different than ours. There hasnt been any violence, neither physical or verbal from the grandmother has there?

I can tell you, if i had to do this i would just move so far away that they could have the access but it would take them a long time to travel to where i would relocate.

I still think its absolutely ridiculous that a court has power to force parents hands. Especially when both are still alive!

I understand why you feel this wat about the courts but you would feel differently if you were, say, a father being denied contact by the mother as a way of punishing him for perceived wrongs.

Given the attitude your parents have displayed to date I think they will have a hard job convincing a court that it is in your children's best interests to give them contact.

"way" not "wat"! Sorry

I can understand the father being denied scenario , of course , but thats totally different. I can even understand if say i died and my husband was being hard and trying to stop my parents from any contact but when we are both alive and kicking? No i think its wrong!

I agree with you from a personal standpoint. The court however must look at what is best for the child, not what is best for the parent. Grandparents don't get as good a deal as absent parents though.

Hi,

Looking at it differently the court is basically saying us as parents arent fit enough to decide the best for our children then?

Im not going to worry anymore , if they get access ill put so much distance between us that it would be a once a year visit due to cost.

Hi,

Well as i was expecting ive had a form through the post today from the court. Its a C2 form off them. Ive received the form today and am being asked to attend the court on 15th Feb (ie only 5 days away) so the court hears the application for leave.

The reasons they have put in there is "following disagreements with daughter and partner access has been permanently denied since june 2010." Thats actually incorrect as we said your not welcome down our house at that time as we were sick of them turning up , causing holy hell and then leaving. It was in october when my nan, sister, knocked at the door and my mum run through, pushing past my husband that we said "rights that it , no more contact with the children" as we had just endured 3hrs of "your fucking crap parents" and shouting and hurling abuse at us in front of the children.

What do i do for the best to sort this out???

Will they be at the hearing also? if so how is that going to work as we have a harassment order against them. Also i dont fancy much turning up and having them there.

Amy

Go to court and say what's what. That's all you can do.

Hi,

What are they likely to do? Aere they likely to grant permission of leave based on them being grandparents? In an earlier it was said that if they have significantly benefited their lives , which isnt case.

Could i have some advice on what to say to stop this in its tracks please?

Amy

WITH SPELLCHECK ON

Hi,

What are they likely to do? Are they likely to grant permission of leave based on them being grandparents? In an earlier post it was said that if they have significantly benefited their lives they would possibly be granted leave but this isn't the case.

Could i have some advice on what to say to stop this in its tracks please?

Amy

Anyone?