How many kids makes you judgey?

[silkyfilament]

So I'm 43 and unexpectedly pregnant with baby number 5. Our other children are aged 13, 10, 7 and 2.
I'm utterly terrified about the judgement. My mother will be 🤦‍♀️. She won't say anything, she'll smile and say things like 'there's plenty of love to go around', but I know what people will really think. I'm paranoid what mum's in the playground will think!

For the record, we have the space in our home. DP has a great really well paid job, which is totally secure. I don't work! Which I think adds to my anxiety. But I'm totally supported financially and am happy with the arrangement we have. I do the home things, he earns the money. We share the house work because his job is cushy and he works about 15 hours a week.

Should I just screw what anyone else thinks and do what we want? Or do I need to stop being single minded, think of my existing kids etc, get back to work....?

I'd like to think I don't "judge" because I don't care how many children people have, as long as long they have the resources to raise their children in a happy and healthy way.

But that's just bollocks isn't it because in reality we do all judge, anyone who says they don't is full of the proverbial.

We all have a different bar when it comes to our definition of "resources to raise children in a happy and healthy way".

Would I roll my eyes if I saw a teenager pushing a pram? Yep. Absolutely. But I would also feel sad for her because I understand that she is likely a product of the environment in which she was raised, just as her children too will be. She may not have the physical resources but she likely has a lot of love in heart to give that child.

Do I question whether parents with the physical resources have the emotional resources to give 3+ children sufficient time, energy and support? Yes, I do. But I don't automatically assume that makes them bad people/parents and neither would questioning their love for their children ever enter my head.

With the exception of only 1, every family I know with 3+ children lives in chaos. Their children are, to varying degrees, quite wild. Their houses are loud shrieky messy places. The parents regularly complain about how much breakfast club costs, how much more expensive holidays are because they need 2 hotel rooms, or they can't afford a Holliday at all, cars cost more because they need to be bigger etc etc. Inwardly I think, but you CHOSE to have that many children!

But at the end of the day it doesn't matter what I or anyone else thinks!! You should do what makes you happy!!

I am not judgy about number of children per se as I have 4 of my own. And I know that working full time is impossible to ensure I am there to meet there needs. That part is exhausting, but I do honestly love it and work hard to carve out small niches of time 1:1 with them.

what I didn’t expect was their neurodiversity, which has made things a hell of a lot harder. And looking back now dh and I see that we have a very neurodiverse family. This has made many aspects of parenting even more difficult than we thought it would be.

Where I do get judgy is when people are not adequately housed and then continue to have more children and try to get bigger houses. I see this a lot in my line of work.i try not to judge, but have to admit that I do.

More than two is frankly unacceptable.

I wouldnt judge someone on the amount of kids they had full stop. Its nothing to do with me. As long as the kids are well looked after and happy. I only really judge people who think their jugement has any importance at all. This coming from someone with one child. I have been judged for this too. I dont give a shiney shit though, other peoples judgements are completely meaningless.

🙄

My only thoughts are how can someone get to 43 and not be able to use contraception effectively? I know it’s not fool proof but surely at that age you know when you ovulate, when you’re most fertile etc. Your circumstances mean you’re not a drain to the state so no judgement on that part. Wouldn’t be for me, don’t know how people manage with loads of kids but if it works for you, then good luck!

@GodspeedJune i had 9 cycles (5 fresh, 4 FET) miscarriage from cycle 2, then conceived cycle 5 and 7. I was 27 when we had out first ivf and 32 when our second was born so we decided to use our last 2 reminding frozen embryos (cycle 8) which failed so we did one last fresh cycle to draw a line under the treatment really never thinking it would be successful and had twins (cycle 9). Then after 12 years of unprotected sex and all that fertility treatment i conceived naturally. There’s 7 years between eldest and youngest. We cracked on each time knowing it had taken ages to get pregnant the first time. I would have given up after cycle five I think if it hadn’t worked, the treatment was harrowing. I spent a long time thinking I would never be lucky enough to be a mother and I’m very very grateful for the family I have.

(in the end I was diagnosed with coeliac disease at 40 after one of the twins got tummy problems, an autoimmune disease that most likely contributed to my diagnosed immune issues with conception, I had prednisone for cycles 7 and 9 and had unknowingly been on a gluten free diet for a year before cycle 5. Otherwise unexplained infertility)

And - not to sound gloomy - but when the kids start leaving home is a time when I've read threads on here about relationships breaking down and marriage making a difference.

If you're 50-odd, menopausal, haven't been in paid work for 20 years or so, no pension, very few assets to your name and your partner says you need to move out - that's bleak.

'my partner definitely wouldn't be a selfish dick if we broke up' isn't enough protection, imho

@boobot1 why the face? Have you seen the world population? There is simply no fucking need for anyone in this country to replace themselves. Better if they don't.

While the rest of us worry about plastic use, flights to see loved ones, there's people chucking out consumers, presumably all in disposable nappies for no sodding reason.

anyone but themselves

And again🙄

Yes I wasn’t judging on not being married from a religious/moral point of view. Just that you are being naive putting yourself in a financially vulnerable position and five children is a lot to be caught up in the mess and would be more difficult to provide for, if anything does go wrong.

More than you can afford to; feed decent food too (I.e decent fruit and veg, balanced diet etc), house adequately, give decent amounts of attention to, pay for the outgoings of (school trips, nice presents etc).

I don’t think a child should go without just because the parents wanted a big family - it’s selfish.

But if you can afford to, crack on.

I also judge people who intentionally have more kids than they can house and feed without state support. It’s not on to make other people pay for your choices.

Yeah, this. I think large families are fantastic and I'd have liked to have one. But sometimes it seems clear that a couple has taken this route in the expectation that the taxpayer will provide. That rankles. So I wouldn't "judge" you at all - unless I knew your family well enough to suspect that you couldn't realistically be supporting yourselves on your DP's 15 hour a week job.

And yeah, get married! 😱😱😱

I agree with you NoCloudsAllowed. It's not nice to talk and think about what might happen should a relationship run its course or things end acrimoniously, but they're sensible conversations to have.

Yep. Me too.

I feel judgemental about a woman I know who continued to have children she couldn't afford with multiple partners. She had 7 by early 30's and they're all in care. All neglected. Tragic. I wouldn't bat an eyelid at you though OP.

Are you giving your current children everything they currently need in terms of attention, investment, support and love? Looking forward can you continue to do that? If you can hand on heart say yes then sure have more kids.

I personally think over 4 is too many. One of the mums in our village is always tagging her husband on events pages saying “ (insert child’s name) would love this” the reality is they can’t afford anything extra curricular for their children and they only occasionally get to have days out because they are so expensive. Unfortunately they’ve overstretched themselves and it will only get worse as the children get older. If she had another yes I would judge.

You know your own family and financial circumstances, not being married is a big red flag. You don’t need a big fancy wedding but you do need the legal protections of being married if not for you then for your 4/5 children. It’s irresponsible to not be married when you are so dependent on your partner.

5 is too many I would say more than 3 is too many. I am one of 6 and forget money it’s that fact that you can never give your child individual attention. I had one day in my entire childhood where I had my Mother to myself completely all day. We went to a small theme park. I can’t remember why it happened but it was the happiest day of my childhood.

Wait...I missed the part where you said your DH only works 15 hours. I need information about this cushy very well paid job that allows him to support a large family!?! My mind is baffled by this 😂

Not going to lie, I would be very concerned that your kids (be that 1 kid or 5) will grow up with a crappy lack of work ethic if they've grown up seeing their parents only work a combined 15 hours between them!

I'm here for you to tell me what you're DH does for a large amount of money and barely and hours 😂

Sounds like my kind of job!

@NoCloudsAllowed three of my friends are divorcing, they have nothing in common with their husbands and when the kids started to leave it became horribly obvious. The big difference is two have always worked, one is very successful, the other is in an average wage job and the other was a SAHM for 15 years and is totally fucked money and career wise.

Being an unmarried sahm with multiple kids is insane sorry. Unless you have a significant private income.

15 hours is the maximum you can work before benefits are cut.

You're family isn't that big. Ds friend comes from a family of 8 aged between 2 - 17 including twins! That's big.