how many is too many?

[oneinamillieon]

i have seven which i think is just the right amount but i have heard people say it's too many. thoughts?

Well, someone has to contribute if the student is awarded the lowest amount of student loan due to family income. Martin Lewis has been campaigning about the need for clarity around the expected / necessary parental contribution for years. So, the contribution either has to come from the student themselves, or from their parents.

Money Saving Expert has a Parental Contribution Calculator:

www.moneysavingexpert.com/students/university-living-costs-calculator/

For my household income, old be expected to contribute over £5k per year per student.

^I'd be expected

I know this isn't really what this thread is about, but it's definitely a good thing for more people to be aware of.

Surely what the right number of children is varies for each person and each parent. 7 would be way to many for me. I have 2 and I often think how much more harmonious 1 would have been. But I am easily overwhelmed and my first and second have different and competing needs.

What I do often notice on these thread about large families is that parents of large families are often more positive about it than adult children who grew up in large families. Not always but it’s just what I’ve noticed.

I grew up with only 1 brother, but my parents both comes from V large families (10-16 siblings) and most of my aunts had V large families. My experience of my family is that it isn’t very harmonious, there is constant drama and conflicts/issues. However they do all pull together if someone needs help and always have eachother to call on:

I know a family of 10 locally, they range in age from 19 to 1.

I have four children and love it.

Personally think it’s a grossly unfair rule as despite being above the income threshold we would not have had the spare money as most people don’t unless quite well off , my DC worked and delayed going until was able to claim independent status.
I like Martin Lewis per se but can’t agree with him on this campaign as implied that parents should see this as their responsibility and I completely disagree on principle.
Obviously money buys you lots of things and opportunities in life, whether that be horse riding lessons or uni, it always has done but you just have to do the best with what you’ve got and the society you live in. We can’t afford for our younger DC to do riding lessons etc but they love the clubs we can afford them to do.
I come from a big family and would I have chosen my parents to be wealthy or my siblings, my siblings absolutely.

@Miri42, yes, I didn't even go there with regard to whether this is fair or not. But it is important that parents understand the situation if their DC are keen to go to university, and then they can discuss this with their DC, and everyone can plan as appropriate.

This is the gov.uk page about understanding student living costs:

www.gov.uk/guidance/understanding-student-living-costs

There are quite a few threads on MN where teenagers are struggling to get part-time jobs. Seems to be area dependent, so in those areas it will be hard for them to build up savings to help contribute to university costs. So will be more likely to have to rely on their parents helping them with finances.

It certainly is something to consider when deciding on size of family (and can’t imagine it is going to get any cheaper) and also consider the fact that many more young people stay living with their parents into their late 20s and beyond (even those who had been to university) as can’t afford housing.

We very well understood the situation as was around when they decided to introduce the new ridiculous system. Like anything the kids want to go for, learning to drive etc we’ll discuss it if need be and offer any help and advice but have generally found my kids have already formulated and actioned a plan to achieve what they want to. They also have a lot of useful advice and support they give each other

I think it’s human nature people pipe up if they’ve got something to complain about. It’s also a numbers game, you’ll always have 1-2 people in any larger group that have more of a negative perspective on things whereas others in the family wouldn’t be without their siblings.

@oneinamillieon if you are divorced how do you split your time between 7 kids?

It is not a lazy assumption. I'm from a very big family and everyone I know who was has said the same thing. My sister has said she never went out without four or five children and she lost a lot of friends that way.

It depends what those responsibilities are. At 11 I was cooking dinner for 8 other children and two parents. I could have done without that responsibility. My friends were going to dancing classes, swimming, classes, guides, etc. We couldn't afford anything like that. The only clothes we had was one school uniform and one other outfit. One pair of shoes.

No, lots of people don't. people will not get the full loan unless they are very poor, disabled, a carer, estranged or a parent themselves.

And even £14k is not enough to live on if you're paying rent!

Seriously, why are people arguing this point when they don't have a clue?

The maximum maintenance loan is £9,706, and the minimum is £3,597. It's really not a lot at all.

DS gets the minimum loan and his rent is currently £167pw

True. It’s just what’s I’ve noticed.
isn’t it also possible that parents often have different perceptive on their children’s childhood to their children? That goes for every parent and child, not just large families. I just mean that in relation to “what’s the right number of children” being very specific to each individual.

I wonder this because I struggle with just 2.

However I do wonder if my 2 would be more self motivated if I had more as they’d have to do more themselves. Where as with only 2 it’s easy to keep doing stuff “for them” for too long. I’ve noticed my cousin’s kids (8 children) are much better at things like putting their shoes away when getting home, and the older ones have sorted much of their uni admin out themselves (eg applying for loans, doing applications etc).

Lots do.

I’ve three at Uni atm. The two girls share with two other girls - neither of those girls get any financial help from their parents (one girls parents can’t help, the other has parents that won’t help). DS is in a house share of 6 and 2 get no help from parents beyond the occasional shopping delivery.

There is a vast difference between the expectation from the government that parents will help and the actual number of parents who can, or do, help.

Too many is one more than you can afford without any form of benefits.

Yes definitely, 2 individuals will experience the same school, party etc all differently. People’s perceptions can change with life experiences too, the more life experience I have the more I respect what my parents did for us, the more I understand my grandparents perspectives. It’s also human nature to link correlation with causation.

If you wait till you’ve been working full time for 3 years then you will get the full loan regardless of parental income. If you want to go sooner then you just stay living at home or work part time to top up your income. My own DC is at uni at the moment. Yes bit rubbish if you want to live far away at 18 but then that’s life. All we an do as a society is try and vote for more fair governments. You might of dreamed of being an Olympic gymnast or astronaut but for every child who found it more difficult to achieve their lofty ambitions because mummy and daddy didn’t have the spare money there’s countless more who are really glad of their siblings. It’s swings and roundabouts

yes, i get downtime for myself
yes, their dad has joint custody and i'm still on very good friendly terms with him
probably, i want to wait a couple of years before getting into a relationship

Absolutely, it’s an unfair and ridiculous rule, most people I know who got help from parents were those who had a lot of wealth within the family already. The majority are those whose parents earn just above the ridiculously low threshold and so don’t get the full loan or any help. Just annoys me when government and businesses then complain we haven’t got enough skilled workers 🤦🏻‍♀️