Tell me why we shouldn't have a fourth child?

[catgotyourtongue]

I am 27 and DH is 29. We've been together for 12 years and we are very stable. I don't see our relationship faltering at all with another child.

Our children are DS8, DD7 and DS2.
We live in a 3 bed house - two double (11x9) and one single (6x9). DD has the single and the boys have one double and we are in the other.

If we had another, we would be happy to move into the single as we only need a bed and the TV in our room. DH has his computer downstairs and our TV could easily go on the wall. We have a very large airing cupboard where we could store our clothes etc.
Our downstairs is big enough that we won't be cramped together (large lounge, with an extension) and a separate dining room. But it is all open plan and the dining room is in the middle so we can't change that into a bedroom.

I don't drive (epilepsy, I would be allowed to drive but I'm not willing to take that risk) but DH has a 7 seater with a big boot. Not that we really go out anyway!
Our support network is amazing (my family live on the same road).
Money is not an issue, we are not rich at all but we're not struggling. A couple of years ago we were living payday to payday but we're not anymore (only by £50 or so but still!)

I have the implant but it is due out next July. I've currently had a period for the last 2 weeks and I don't know if that's related to the implant (no periods at all and it's been in 2 years now).

I can't shake the feeling of not being "done"
I thought I was finished after DS but I can't stop thinking about it. DH makes odd comments about how he'd like another and then changes his mind. But when we got together, he only wanted 1!

Our three are all healthy and the pregnancy/birth was easy.

I'm not sure if I'm forgetting anything!

How will very young children (a 2 year old) evaluate what the pros and cons are of an extended family? Young children simply don’t know what they are going without due to the new addition to the family. It’s an adult decision. It can never be a family one. If DC don’t have much in the first place, how do they know what they are missing?

You're so young, you have no need to get stuck in a rut where you feel you are just a mum... get planning in that notebook!

Think of other careers, something out and about rather than in an office- police force, garden designer?? - that would be an amazing example to set for your kids.

Unfortunately I agree that you currently can't afford a 4th. Sign your kids up for swimming lessons (some would consider it essential) and your spare money is wiped out.

I have 5dc OP, first 4 were with my first husband and we could afford to do so. Then ten year gap and my now one year old dc is to my second husband and was a ‘surprise’ due to mirena coil moving out of place.

We really were not in a position to have another but I also couldn’t handle the thought of termination.

We live in a three bedroom house. My 15 and 14yo share a room, my 11 and 10yo share a room, the baby is in his own room. My husband and I sleep in a curtained off part of the L shaped lounge. It’s a tight squeeze but we get by.

I also had four text book pregnancy’s and births so I was not expecting the traumatic birth I did have with dc5. I’m not saying it will happen to you, but please don’t think that previous good labours mean you will definitely have another good one.

I had 4 older brothers and sisters so I guess a large family just seemed the norm to me, but my granny had 6 boys altogether and she said to me once that every child you have takes a little more away from the children you already have. This has turned out to be so true. With four children in double figures the cost has gone up hugely, with more food being ate, larger clothing and shoe sizes, gadgets and expensive school trips etc. Every month there is something and it’s stressful. There is the parental guilt when I can’t afford them something.

Then there is the time and attention. Each of my children are individuals and all have different likes, dislikes and so on. On top of that two of my children are autistic and the baby is delayed developmentally just now.

I guess what I am trying to say is to think very very carefully about why you want another and the impact it will have on all of you as a family. I love babies, I really do and even now I am really broody but if I’m honest, I’d say my children have suffered from me having had so many of them and that’s quite hard to admit, but it’s true.

I’m in process of spending £250 on DDs uniform for September (not including all the equipment she needs and a new coat). I spend £100 a month on activities, as well as the time I spend driving and waiting.
I’ve got a friend with 5 children. When the eldest went off to uni she literally had no money to give them, in fact she could hardly afford to get him there. Which is particularly sad as we had free uni education including grants.
She’s never been able to afford a car that fits all 7 of them in.

I think it’s fine to have 4 but it places many limitations for the children you do have. Small children are cheap, teenagers are not.

@Threnody Have you really told your kids you’re ttc?

[quote catgotyourtongue]@SnuggyBuggy I was nearly 19 when I had DS. Him and DD were both contraception failures. But I wouldn't change them for the world.

(I moved in with DH when I turned 17 though so I didn't bring another baby into my mum's house before anyone thinks that!)

I've worked full time and I've worked part time. But my life revolves around my children. They are literally everything.

Maybe it is me sticking to what I know now DS2 isn't dependent on me (not breastfeeding now) and he will actually let DH put him to bed.
The thought of starting something new is scary and I do worry I wouldn't be any good at it, whereas I know I can raise my children..[/quote]
You can raise your children at this point in time. Life has a way of chucking things at us when we least expect it. How would you cope if one of your children or you or your husband developed a serious life threatening illness?

I would have been happy to add another child when I was younger, but living with a child with a life threatening illness brought everything into sharp focus, there just wasn't enough of me to give to both of my children as they needed it. I couldn't imagine coping with something like that with four of them.
Plus you seem happy to share rooms at the moment, but as kids grow so does all their stuff, I'd hate living in a home that always felt crowded and untidy, and will your children really thank you for making them live like that? You're happy playing mum for now, but you don't want to look back in five or ten years and realise that you actually wish you'd done more with your life.

Kids grow up and move away, but you will always be a parent. I think being the best parent for your current children and focusing on what is best for them is really important, they are babies for such a short time that having more really isn't feasible just because you love the baby stage, and the teenage years can be incredibly difficult, I wouldn't make it harder than it needs to be.

Raising just one child is a lifetime commitment, as well as all the posts recognising the absolutely valid points about the environment, just think about what you'd like to do for yourself and the sort of example you want to be for your kids. Staying at home and just having children because you're scared about doing anything else won't end well.

PurpleThistles84 your honest post is an eye opener. Lacking time for each child is a reason that holds me back from trying to add a third to our family. I know those with large families or who great up with many siblings often say that they didn't lose out on time with parents, or they gained time with more siblings, or that having less parental input was actually good and made them more independent but for me I think dividing my attention between more than two wouldn't be beneficial for me or the kids. And with only two I am able to have time for my own interests as a safeguard against becoming an over invested and over bearing parent which is something that those who grew up as a only child or with only one sibling sometimes complain about. In short, it seems easier to mitigate the possible downsides to just two children rather than those of a larger brood.

PurpleThistles84 and your experience with your 5th birth is another thing that holds me back. Previous good births are no guarantee of a future one and I'm just not brave enough to chance that all over again.

With the coming recession is this the time to increase your expenses?

I have three, eldest now 16. Tbh during normal life I never have an evening to myself as I am always ferrying one to child to something, whether that be a sports club/music lessons/friends etc etc. It literally never ends. And it costs a lot! What would you do? No extra curriculars? You wouldn’t even have enough time to listen to them all read/help with homework.

@catgotyourtongue If you're looking at Universal Credit amounts in case of emergency

You can only claim for two kids

Any third (or more) child born after 06/04/2017 won't be counted on your claim, you only get funding for two.
Sounds like your youngest would fall into that category too?

I’m sorry @SociallyDistanced2020 I hope I didn’t come across as a bit too honest. I’m autistic myself and don’t have a great filter sometimes.

I should also have said that there are positives to a large family too, sometimes when we are all sat playing a board game together or watching a film, I find myself looking at all my children and just feel in awe of what I have made. When they are all playing together, laughing and not trying to kill each other, it’s lovely, it really is. Sadly laughter doesn’t cover the bills though.

@catgotyourtongue you’ve been very gracious given some of the nasty replies. People seem to forget the human behind the screen. In saying that you’ve also been given some very honest experiences shared and some supportive and though-provoking replies too. So I hope this experience on the whole has helped. I’ve not much to add, other than my experience of becoming a young mum and spending 20 years as “just a mum”. Yes I also worked some PT hours and gained several qualifications. But my role was a mum. As a teenage mum I think you lose the identity of you as a person when you become a mum- you can’t remain a carefree teen so you have nothing to return to really. When your baby reaches toddlerhood there is a point you begin to look at the future and that’s scary when you don’t know yourself- you don’t know who you the “not mum role” actually is... and so perhaps there is a safety in having another baby and keeping that identity going for a while longer.
I am now in my forties and have begun the career of my dreams and am loving the development of my individual self. It’s bloody tough but I do wish I’d started years ago.
I think what you’re experiencing is actually very common and many people don’t even think as much as you have about it already. That “not finished” feeling may never come. What then? To me, that’s better than realising in a few years that you actually shouldn’t have had a child or that your older children are being held back or disadvantaged by your Choices. That’s tough.
I wish you all the best for your future. Take some time to get to know yourself and develop your interests and skills whatever they may be- then see if that you wants another baby rather than the mum you that is clinging to what she knows in fear of stepping out into a new future.

@Threnody

We're ttc #4. My children are very excited about it. It's a decision only you as a family can make. As long as you have enough space, time and money, enough contingency plans and money in case something goes wrong, and the whole family is OK with it.

I think it is more than apparent from this thread that the OP has neither enough space or money, and has zero contingency money. And I agree with a PP that it is massively inappropriate to tell kids that you’re TTC or to involve them in any decision making about further babies. They are children and this is an adult decision. They can’t possible understand the full implications and it’s grossly unfair and inappropriate as a parent to put children in the middle of decisions like that.

Hi @Rainycloudyday

I’ve posted above about canvassing the opinions of my children as if any of them seemed to be distressed by the question then it would be something I’d need to think about carefully. Why are they so distressed, what is that response driven by?

I completely get what you’re saying - parents should never ever abdicate responsibility for such key decisions onto the children but of not want to foist my decision on them either without consultation.

Sorry for the divert, just felt I had to make that clear.

@TheHeathenOfSuburbia
I didn't look into it much, it was more of a joke like 'shall we see how much i would get if you left me'. We were genuinely surprised that i would be better off. We receive some tax credits but that is for the older two. We receive £11 child benefit a week for DS2. He was born the year after the cap came in.

We would also be better off if we claimed UC now by £100 a month but we both decided we would rather not rely on that after seeing what it does to people.

@Isadora2007

"you’ve been very gracious given some of the nasty replies. People seem to forget the human behind the screen. "
Thank you. I find it easy to let them go over my head because I love my life and it is a good life for us as a family. It may not suit other people but right now, it suits us. We are a happy family. Cheesy as it is - we are not rich in money but we are rich in love.
Regardless of the mean comments - I am glad i posted. Some of the comments have been really helpful and I appreciate them. They've helped me see some things I need to change.

As a teenage mum I think you lose the identity of you as a person when you become a mum- you can’t remain a carefree teen so you have nothing to return to really. When your baby reaches toddlerhood there is a point you begin to look at the future and that’s scary when you don’t know yourself- you don’t know who you the “not mum role” actually is... and so perhaps there is a safety in having another baby and keeping that identity going for a while longer.
You have hit the nail on the head 100%. I have never been a carefree teenager. I have been with DH since i was 15, we moved out together a month after I turned 17 and I fell pregnant around my 18th birthday. I worked FT straight from school, then went part time and to college but I left because I fell pregnant. There's been no time for carefree.

@ @catgotyourtongue Now is your time To get to know yourself and this other aspect of you that isn’t the mummy all the time. It’s liberating... and you sound very much like Someone worth getting to know

@Rainallnight no, we haven't told them. I was pregnant, and we told them, then I lost the baby. They have since been very insistent that there should be another baby. We haven't said that we are trying, or that there will be one (as we just don't know), but it's nice to know they are positive about the idea.

@Rainycloudyday I am not putting any decisions on my children, I do think asking children old enough to understand if they would or wouldn't want a sibling is a good idea - if they definitely don't, then it's something to take into consideration.

@LesNanas

There's definitely a demographic on here who only measure success and happiness by education, career and money. They cant imagine there are people who don't prioritise music lessons, tutoring and advanced mandarin lessons. It's very London centric where the main aim for your children is a university education and a job in a one of the big four. There's huge swathes of the population who don't live like this or aspire to it.

I agree that there is a subcategory of people on Mn who think this, but I fail to see how it's relevant to the OP's desire to have another child when (a) her resources are pretty stretched with three, and no room for financial for emergencies/contingencies and (b) it's very clear that having another child and hence making it temporarily impossible all over again for herself to become economically independent and get back in the workplace is her primary motivation.

I can understand what your saying @LesNanas but isn’t that what parenting is about though giving your child the absolute best you possibly can? If that means having one less child to increase a better lifestyle then so be it. Lots of mums feel broody it’s completely natural but you cannot loose site of prospective.

I hink you’ve misunderstood that post, @Heyhih3 — I think @LesNanas is saying that the OP’s resources are pretty stretched already, so it’s not that stopping at three is going to mean the three grow up showered with music lessons and Advanced Mandarin, it’s more a matter of being able to feed, clothe and shelter them in the face of an unexpected expense.

As I said earlier, not aspiring to a good education or DC going to university shouldn’t be a badge of distinction. I certainly don’t think it’s rich Londoners who only want better for DC. It’s plenty of other families elsewhere too. Even poorer people in London can rightly see the benefits of a good education. Why is wanting the best you can not admirable? Don’t we all want our DC to do well?

@HousemaidsElbow I didn’t misunderstand. I disagree. OP has not got a job at the moment and she feels very much in “mum mode” it’s easy to fall into this. As somebody else posted they had a friend who became a social worker and another job can’t remember what they wrote. OP can broaden her horizons study get a better paid job and maybe one of her DC would like music lessons in the future.

As people have stated the expense increases as children become older and they start developing their own personality’s and wanting to possibly try new things. The child with a fear of planes he’s eight I’m sure as he gets older he will outgrow this.

Fifty pounds leftover at the end of the month - is that enough to pay for a child?
Do you have pensions and savings?

@Isadora2007 has given some fabulous and kind advice...hopefully it's given you a different perspective. It sounds like you have a lovely family.