Tell me why we shouldn't have a fourth child?

[catgotyourtongue]

I am 27 and DH is 29. We've been together for 12 years and we are very stable. I don't see our relationship faltering at all with another child.

Our children are DS8, DD7 and DS2.
We live in a 3 bed house - two double (11x9) and one single (6x9). DD has the single and the boys have one double and we are in the other.

If we had another, we would be happy to move into the single as we only need a bed and the TV in our room. DH has his computer downstairs and our TV could easily go on the wall. We have a very large airing cupboard where we could store our clothes etc.
Our downstairs is big enough that we won't be cramped together (large lounge, with an extension) and a separate dining room. But it is all open plan and the dining room is in the middle so we can't change that into a bedroom.

I don't drive (epilepsy, I would be allowed to drive but I'm not willing to take that risk) but DH has a 7 seater with a big boot. Not that we really go out anyway!
Our support network is amazing (my family live on the same road).
Money is not an issue, we are not rich at all but we're not struggling. A couple of years ago we were living payday to payday but we're not anymore (only by £50 or so but still!)

I have the implant but it is due out next July. I've currently had a period for the last 2 weeks and I don't know if that's related to the implant (no periods at all and it's been in 2 years now).

I can't shake the feeling of not being "done"
I thought I was finished after DS but I can't stop thinking about it. DH makes odd comments about how he'd like another and then changes his mind. But when we got together, he only wanted 1!

Our three are all healthy and the pregnancy/birth was easy.

I'm not sure if I'm forgetting anything!

I would echo what others say about teenagers being REALLY expensive. We have four, and they cost a fortune -eg buying all the back to school kit, which includes at least 8 pairs of shoes in September (new school shoes, new trainers) and then any sports kit etc is cripplingly expensive - and they grow really fast! Four phone contracts, four teenagers eat a LOT, four sets of clubs and after school stuff, music lessons, extra curricular things, holidays, eating out (going to the cinema costs £80 just in tickets......). Think hard!

At 27 you family may not be done but from the sounds of it now sounds like the wrong time to expand it.

If part of the reason you're considering a 4th is because your youngest is getting out of the baby stage and more independent from you, have a think about how you feel when the next one gets to the same stage - you can't keep having babies indefinitely. You started your family very young so having young kids is all you've known your entire adult life, I can understand why you'd think continuing that is logical but have a think about how you see the future, 2 years, 5 years, 10 years away.

I've 5 children in 3 bed house with converted attic room. I have recently given my oldest my bedroom and I have a sofa bed in our big kitchen, brought lamps cosy bedding etc which I only bring out at night and it feels like a bedroom then. Only youngest two boys share a room atm and they have biggest room and wouldn't want to not share. But once they do I'll find a way of giving them their own space. Going from 2 to 3 kids was hardest jump for me 4 and 5 just fitted in.

You sleep in your kitchen? With DH? Or on your own? Wherever - that’s madness. It’s not a great role model for DC to live like this. I would be ashamed.

No mid really needs 4 DC in a small house. No one with little money buys their DC what they want. They go without. People with little money don’t save up for university expenses for DC. They simply cannot afford to. Children with families who don’t have spare money don’t have music lessons. They often feel they shouldn’t be a financial burden on their parents so don’t go to university. Older ones like to earn and help out at home all too often.
So no. Stay with 3 DC and think about them. Put them first.

I feel from your responses that you aren't particularly put off. You just keep justifying why you absolutely could have another kid if you wanted, and sod the rest.
Well, crack on!

I think my question is this: what problem (if any) would no. 4 solve?

The thought of starting something new is scary and I do worry I wouldn't be any good at it, whereas I know I can raise my children.

I understand that. It is scary to do something completely new but you’ll never know what you might be capable of unless you try. It’s not going to get less scary if you leave it 5 or 10 years! You’ll need to find something for yourself eventually. Raising children isn’t a lifetime activity - unless you’re a Duggar or Sue Radford.

Sorry but while of course children are you everything it's crazy to base your whole identity and self on them.

It's not healthy and also when will you stop? My MIL ended up having a breakdown when her kids left home, she couldn't cope as they were her while world. Very unhealthy dynamic.

Financially you don't sound in a position to. I also echo comments about the environmental impact.

@BigRedBoat has hit the nail on the head

The planet.

If I had known what a shit-show climate change would prove to be, I would have stopped at 2.

Sleeping in your kitchen is absurd. There's no point cramming another child into a small house because you're scared to take a leap into something different. It is terrifying, i know. But you'd have to stop having children at some point - you physically don't have room for another child without massively impacting your existing children's space available. Don't do it to them.

We have four DC. I had the first at 29 after working and having a degree, I was a SAHM for 12 years and then went back to work when the youngest was 6. They all have their own bedrooms.

It is hard having 4 and bloody expensive to get them all back to school will cost £800 at least. Holidays - we have to get 2 hotel rooms and flights are expensive. Yes it can be done a lot cheaper with staying in the U.K. and things like caravans etc. During lockdown it’s been like a plague of locusts has descended on the fridge each day! Yes teenagers are expensive. They were a lot cheaper when they were toddlers.

I adore them but 2 or 3 would definitely been more sensible.

OP I am 42 and don't feel done. I thinl feeling done is a bit of a myth. Not having another though. Oh god, I wanted one. But it was not fair on my children (given our circumstances) my DH, who didn't earn much, or myself to think that all I was good at was having children. I have since got a better job and am doing some training with a different focus - and love it. You have so much time to do what you earn job wise. Concentrate on that now and earning more do you can take your kids on holidays and adventures. Also get a pension!

OP you will be a far bigger benefit to yourself and your existing children by getting yourself educated/qualified and working.

Maybe it is me sticking to what I know now DS2 isn't dependent on me (not breastfeeding now) and he will actually let DH put him to bed.
The thought of starting something new is scary and I do worry I wouldn't be any good at it, whereas I know I can raise my children.

This, I think, is the reasoning behind so many of these 3rd/4th/5th babies. And I’ve had these feelings myself but there is a point where you have to stop letting your heart rule your head. As scary as that is. Time to do something that will benefit you in the long term.

OP, something I’ve thought a lot about recently - partly because of coronavirus - is how your circumstances are now versus how they would be in some sort of crisis.

It sounds now as though a fourth child would be just about do-able, but have you thought how it would work if something went wrong?

I’m a bit older than you and have seen the sort of blows that life, sadly, can land on people. People lose jobs, get sick, die, pandemics happen...

Would four children be manageable if your DH died (God forbid), you got sick, one of the kids got very ill, some of your family support moved away, your DH lost his job etc...? You can’t just think about now, but also a range of scenarios in the future.

My parents have both died in the past 18 months, with my mum dying at the start of lockdown. I can say hand on heart that I wouldn’t have managed this horrendously difficult time with a single extra child.

Ha I'm a brilliant role model to my kids thank you very much, I'm a single mum to 5, only me sleeping down here no husband. Its not for everyone but I love my big family, there is so much laughter in my house we tick along brilliant with each other. I financially provide for mine no one goes with out. And BTW before u judge my kitchen is huge its our family room during day, massive kitchen diner and the role model I'm setting my kids is that they know how much I love them and know they need there own space, hardly bad role model

Rain it was around the time of several family deaths (one a parent my age) that I decided against my longed for third. If anything happened to me or DH we would still manage. It sounds morbid but events like that really change your perspective.

My0my why should I feel ashamed? I'm bringing up 5 kids on my own, all high achievers, all have separate hobbies, big house in the countryside, beautiful garden, all happy. I have my own business I work from home so I'm always there for them. I am no where near ashamed!

I'm sorry, I know how awful it is to yearn for another child, but I think your existing children would benefit far more from having 2 working parents once free nursery hours kick in for your youngest than they would from having another sibling.

You don't have the space or the money at the moment. Maybe once you've worked a couple of years to save up whilst DC is at nursery you could look at a 4th, but at the moment I'd say it'd be selfish.

I get how hard it is though, be kind to yourself.

Climate Emergency. TIPPING POINT. Children born now may live a hundred years. Fires, floods, melting ice, water wars, mass migration, a human population bigger than the planet can bear, doubled in one lifetime.
Have twenty, but go find your own private planet first.
The whole world should and must have a one child policy or better still a pause from human population expansion.
Everything a second child has is stolen from the first. Resources, attention, ability to survive at all in emergency..

Other citizens may or may not be supporting you, financially or in fights for food, when things crash . You may think niether you nor your husband could ever drop dead of covid, ebola, the next flu, the currently developing new swine flu, or just ordinary unexpected illness. You may think your family income will be secure for ever, and that employment will always be there, and that the country, the world, will happily continue for ever on an economic ponzi scheme where bigger and bigger personal and national debt is turned into debt debt debt, to spend spend spend, to boost the fake figures of a worshipped false idol of The Economy.

As measured by G.D.P, it is good to import junk to throw away, good to be in debt. Importing tons of stuff to buy and throw into landfill, spending and waste, wasting food, throwing away plastic, throwing away clothes, buying stuff, any stuff:. That is how to boost GDP. Getting a big GDP equates to getting a national credit card with an even bigger overdraft on it. It isn't sustainable.
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However, if childcare is something you wish to do, and have a flair for, then adopt or foster one of the numerous unwanted unloved children already on the planet.

Some people are born to be mums and want bigger families, you seem to be one of those people. My mum had a big family and ill tell you something different rather than the small house or financial side of things but health wise, my mum has a prolapse where she feels her insides coming out. Don't get me wrong growing up in a big family we are all close, we didn't have and that was that. But having to accompany my mum to hospital while she has a device put inside her to stop her bladder and womb coming out is heartbreaking. Please think of the longterm and how your kids would feel sitting in a hospital waiting room while you are in having a bit of rubber put inside your body

How can it be great for 5 DC to know that, by their existence, their mum sleeps in the kitchen and the dad(s) not around, Marie? You are not on the same planet as me or anyone I know. Your DC might reflect back when they are older and wonder what on Earth was going on?

Even if your smallest bedroom is big enough for you and your DH I still think that your house is too small for the children you already have. Your sons are six years apart which feels huge to children and no doubt sharing will cause issues in the future if it hasn’t already. It is horrible for a girl going through puberty to share a room with a boy so I agree that your DD should have her own room. Your finances are very tight and the little you have will be stretched even thinner by a fourth child.
You don’t mention your own career either, however given that you’ve spent your twenties having children and are financially unstable I suspect you don’t have one. In your situation I would be focusing my energy on getting some qualifications so I could work and give my existing children a few more opportunities in life.

Op what about the children you have?
I’m sure they’d prefer a holiday rather than another sibling!