Tell me why we shouldn't have a fourth child?

[catgotyourtongue]

I am 27 and DH is 29. We've been together for 12 years and we are very stable. I don't see our relationship faltering at all with another child.

Our children are DS8, DD7 and DS2.
We live in a 3 bed house - two double (11x9) and one single (6x9). DD has the single and the boys have one double and we are in the other.

If we had another, we would be happy to move into the single as we only need a bed and the TV in our room. DH has his computer downstairs and our TV could easily go on the wall. We have a very large airing cupboard where we could store our clothes etc.
Our downstairs is big enough that we won't be cramped together (large lounge, with an extension) and a separate dining room. But it is all open plan and the dining room is in the middle so we can't change that into a bedroom.

I don't drive (epilepsy, I would be allowed to drive but I'm not willing to take that risk) but DH has a 7 seater with a big boot. Not that we really go out anyway!
Our support network is amazing (my family live on the same road).
Money is not an issue, we are not rich at all but we're not struggling. A couple of years ago we were living payday to payday but we're not anymore (only by £50 or so but still!)

I have the implant but it is due out next July. I've currently had a period for the last 2 weeks and I don't know if that's related to the implant (no periods at all and it's been in 2 years now).

I can't shake the feeling of not being "done"
I thought I was finished after DS but I can't stop thinking about it. DH makes odd comments about how he'd like another and then changes his mind. But when we got together, he only wanted 1!

Our three are all healthy and the pregnancy/birth was easy.

I'm not sure if I'm forgetting anything!

Also look at you and DP getting a better job/career.
And something for you, what about uni?
DP earns 48k and we won’t be having more than two!
Much rather have a comfortable life than lots of sprogs, that’s just me though 😂

We are not abroad kind of people.. DS8 is petrified of the thought of going on a plane and he refuses to go on a train. Our holidays are Haven which the children love. We were due to go in a couple of weeks but cancelled because the pool wouldn't be open. We have another booked for September anyway.

I did a couple of open university courses a while ago but the nearest university is too far away. There is no chance of us moving where that is as house prices double.
College is a better option because it's a lot closer (25 min walk but also bus route)

DH has been looking for a better job but there's just nothing suitable around here. He is willing to travel but we still haven't found anything and we both check daily.

I left my job in June 2015 because I had a really bad panic attack and convinced myself I was going to have a seizure. Since then I haven't been able to be under fluorescent lights for longer than a couple of hours. But I would've had to leave in September anyway because I couldn't do the school runs. I started at 8am and they wouldn't change my hours.

Not being able to be under fluorescent lights has made it harder for me to find a suitable job as most places have them lights! I get really twitchy and dizzy. I usually wear sunglasses if I have to go to a supermarket. Our shopping gets delivered though as it's easier.

I'm thinking of having another one but my future is different from yours. I have a trust worth £300k in my name. There's also othe rmkney coming in.y salary should double in not too long and I plan to get a doctorate which will make my salary expectations even higher. And. Most our children don't live FT with us. Even then we're mat likely not having another one.

So your 8 year old controls your family regarding holidays and travel? You need to work with him on this. You need to get away from thinking all you can do is have babies. It all seems very limiting. Your other DC need attention and you need to get out more. Why are all jobs under fluorescent lights? How odd!

Another one chipping in to say that next few years might be extremely rocky financially after COVID the numbers of job losses are also rising by the day. As you are so young why not say you’ll consider it again in two or three years time.
My parents split up when I was quite young and my mum who had given up a job she loved to be a SAHM was completely shafted financially. She managed in later years to find some poorly paid jobs that fitted around school runs. Not eligible for full state pension, certainly no private pension, kept the family home as part of the settlement but could never afford to maintain it well.
So my questions. Is the child benefit in your name? this at least gives you National Insurance credits (35 years worth needed for full state pension) Does your husband as current sole earner have life insurance and critical illness cover? if not how would you keep the roof over your heads if something happened to him. Do you pay for house insurance? how would you pay for repairs if washing machine leaked and flooded the kitchen. Do you have some money put by for that sort of unexpected expense.
I think my experience of relative poverty as a child has left its mark! Only if you have all these sorts of things covered can you say your money is spare

The types of jobs I am qualified to do are things like shops which have fluorescent lights. I can't work in an office because I can't use a computer for long periods of times.

We rent our house from a family friend (my nanny's best friend's son who we call nanny too). He owns 4 houses in total - his house, ours, my auntie and his mum.
The oven and fridge are built in so if they break, he replaces them. Which has happened before, we had a replacement the next day!

But we have contents insurance.
We both have life insurance (separate)
Child benefit is in my name.

Can anyone recommend somewhere to go with a private pension?

There’s nothing wrong with U.K. holidays of course.
But children change op, they get older and acquire more expensive tastes, they also cost more!

My dd for example loves flamingo land etc but she’s almost a teenager and would like to visit Poland. These things wouldn’t be possible with 4 kids (for us!).

There’s just so much more to life op, as one of 7, we struggled. I was jealous of friends who got things like holidays, driving lessons etc.

Focus on the lovely children you have and give them a better future.

Show them that you can have a career, hobbies etc.

Op you’re setting your sights low.

You don’t have to work in a shop just because that’s what you’re qualified to do, think about what you’d like to do career wise.

My friend who’s been a SAHM for many years is off to uni to become a probation officer, after completing an access course at college, another one is becoming a social worker.

Also save the money and look at getting a deposit for a mortgage, you’re throwing money away renting.

If your DH is employed he should have a pension.

You seem to have a lot you don’t do or cannot do. You are not yet 30 but you sound like you are 70.

Computer work requires you to have a break every 2 hours. Getting a job right now might be problematic. But I think you need to be better prepared for employment in the future and instead of having a baby make some decisions about what you can do or what training you might need and how you get transport to work and back. You have help with housing and that’s very fortunate. Lucky you. But you should have a financial plan and will this housing arrangement last forever? Possibly not. What happens if the owner of the house dies? What happens if it has to be sold? You are not looking at secure housing for life. I would be thinking far more about that. (I have assumed nanny is grandma, not nanny as in looking after children).

You don’t have to work in a shop just because that’s what you’re qualified to do, think about what you’d like to do career wise.

I agree. Op you're only 27, it seems absurd to me that you're writing yourself off. I think it would be good to sit down and think about where you'd like to be in 5 years time, and how you can work towards getting there.

Whilst I understand why you might like to expand your family. I get the impression that having another baby would be a delaying tactic, because you're worried about stepping out of your current comfort zone.

You want to defer economic reality by having another child. What then? Another baby?

You seem to be forgetting that children grow up and won't always be the ages that yours are now. They might be happy not doing any extracurricular activities and just playing at home/going to the park now, but I can guarantee that this won't be the case when they are older. Or even if it is, just the basic costs of having older children compared to younger children massively increase. Primary school uniform is pretty cheap; even the cheapest secondary school uniform is not. More and more secondary schools are going to require access to a laptop or a decent tablet at home. There are costs associated with school that are not optional e.g. paying for geography fieldwork trips that they have to do as part of the GCSE (costs only covered for pupil premium children). Your boys might be happy to share now, but how is it going to work in 5 years when they are 13 and 7; and your oldest wants to do his homework or chat to his friends over social media after the youngest's bedtime?

I agree with the poster who says that you had children young, you've openly said your life revolves around them, and you want to have another because you don't really have a life or an identity of your own outside of looking after young children. If you do have another child, what happens when they get to 2/3 and you feel like something is still missing? Will you have another child? Also, the more children you have, the harder it will be to do a job/course because the childcare will just be too crippling/difficult.

OP your life will seem financially precarious to many MNers. You have no qualifications, no pension, no job. You live in a house that is rented from a friend of a friend (what happens if you have notice served....and how are you proposing to divide up rooms in a rented house?). No relationship is rock solid. If your husband leaves you are utterly screwed....with 3 kids, nevermind 4.

Statistically (as a teenage mum) OPs children are unlikely to go to university, and unlikely to do music, drama, swimming etc as out of school activities. There is no reason that this has to be the case, but with £50 left over each month it’s convenient that they don’t like activities because in reality there isn’t really money to pay for them anyway. OPs daughter has a baby machine as a role model, and will probably have her own children at 18, as this is all she knows and sees. OP gives no suggestion that she is in any way unhappy with her life......which is fine, it just isn’t the life most of the responders would like to live. In my world £50 left over each month is living hand to mouth. What do you do OP when the car needs fixing or the washing machine breaks?

For me, it comes down to this:

Think about the children you have very carefully. Because it is they who will bear the weight of your decision to expand your family.

I started the “are you one of 4+ siblings” thread because we are lucky enough to be able to well afford the costs of a 4th, we have space, an excellent local school that feeds to a good secondary and 1140 hours of funding available when our youngest qualifies for it at nursery.

For me, that’s the baseline to even entertain thinking about family expansion: it allows me to then canvass the opinions of the children I have and try and blend that with looking to the future and being real about how much strain DH and I could be under with the time, care and nurturing of any more children than we already have.

I’m still undecided and there’s a powerful argument to stop where we are at 3, so I get the feeling of not being done.

But simply put, you don’t have the resources for a 4th and if you did go there the inevitable extra stress involved of raising another would impact the children you do have. I would urge against.

As an aside, yes the environmental factor is worth considering but this board is no place for those who hold those values dear to come and berate the people who are posting here. If you don’t agree with larger families, don’t click on a single link on this board.

My0my prehaps they will all grow up to hate their childhood and feel their mum was a weirdo cause she slept in the kitchen, I'm just saying how 5 kids is in my experience. At present they all at least appear to b happy and stable. Sometimes u get what u r given in life and have to make most of it as I am. Certainly didn't choose to b single mum of 5, was definitely not how I thought I'd end up, but the choice was taken away from me, when I planned 4 kids I was a little girl, just always wanted to have big family, my husband worked in well paid job I didn't need to work, but that didn't work out. Second husband wanted one of his own so had 5th that too didn't work, mainly cause the strain of the 5th, I now bring them all up on my own and it's OK that's all I'm saying. Being judged My0my is the hardest part of being a mum of 5, maybe that's the hardest part for the kids too, but all I'm saying is it's not all gloom and doom having larger family and whatever happens in life as long as you see positives nothing too much is a problem.

@Marie543 I would say that's a really strong argument for not having a 4th, the fact you can end up on your own is surely a huge reason to not have 4 or more? It's great you're managing but surely you don't think people should threaten to put themselves in that situation? And it's not a situation you've ended up in accidentally, your choices have led you there, it's within the OP's power to not ever have to end up a single parent to 4 children. You can't predict a split (or death), but you can the number of kids you end up with.

To be very blunt it sounds like you’ve already had more children than you were ready for. Having yet another will just compound your mistake. You’re trying to stick to the status quo of being a busy mum of young children, why not take a break from reproducing and focus on yourself for a while? I’d be concerned that if you don’t find yourself an alternative identity you’ll just keep cramming an ever increasing number of children into your little house. It’s not fair to use children to avoid change.

I wouldn't want to discourage you!

It's perfectly fine for children to share rooms until they leave home. It's important, though, to consider if that's workable whichever sex a new baby might be. From nearing puberty and beyond, it's best to only share with siblings of the same sex.

So many PPs assume there's no benefit to your existing children, but I know so many families who've had a fourth child and found it a blessing to the whole family.

So many PPs assume there's no benefit to your existing children, but I know so many families who've had a fourth child and found it a blessing to the whole family.

You're being very simplistic. It is quite evident that in the OP's case, especially with the size of their house and financial vulnerability, that the absence of a 4th child would be more beneficial to the children than the addition of one.

There are some nasty comments on this thread. You can encourage the OP to think about herself and her financial future without the nasty, sneering comments. And the poster who said well I’m sorted I have a 300k trust fund. Words fail me.

Well yes it is an argument against having more, just wanted to say it from my side of things that's all and certainly not choices I have made to become single. Mine are all older now and just wanted to say it's all OK I coped, we coped without too many problems at least so far. I agree about planet etc I really do, was young when I had mine and my views probably changed since then, but apart from planet and over population side of things in my experience I wouldn't say don't not have a child, my big family has been OK.... So far 😂😂😂

You need more education/career guidance and better finances, not another baby.

I don’t know why people are obsessing about foreign holidays. Holidaying abroad is a real luxury- not an essential cost of having children. So many children never go abroad until they reach adult hood and fund it themselves. They aren’t deprived. Haven holidays at home are perfectly fine.

Anyway OP- job/career wise I would use this time to have a think about what you’d like to do and work out a plan for doing it. It sounds like your DH earns enough to support the family without you needing to take a job in a supermarket or similar so you don’t need to consider those jobs- you can just focus on a career. Also work on your employability. For example covid has shut down my business and I’ve realised just how unemployable I am for any of the other jobs I’d like to do. I have started a computer skills course which will give me an up to date certificate I can put on my CV, I will have experience in the current office programmes and also there is career support that includes writing a CV included at the end of my course. Best of all (for me) its taught via teams so I can do it from home. It’s also absolutely free because it’s specifically for people who have become unemployed due to COVID. You could see if your local FE college is offering anything similar. Once this course is finished I have applied to start an accounting course at the same FE college. (I chose accounting because when I was searching for jobs there were lots in this line of work) Meanwhile to supplement my computer skills course I’m also practising typing daily as I have no typing skills.

None of that my be of interest to you as I see computers aren’t your thing but it’s just to give you an idea of how you can use your time now to improve your employability for when you are ready to work. It means you are ready and equipped to apply for jobs straight away rather than doing as I’ve done and scrolled through countless job adverts realising just how unemployable I am.

You mentioned hairdressing which is a great option because once qualified you can work as a self employed hairdresser working from home, or as a mobile hairdresser to work around your family. It’s also one of the sectors that doesn’t seem to suffer in a recession. I know one of the requirements for level 2 hairdressing course is maths and English GCSE. Do you have those? If not maybe that’s something you could work on before starting the course.

There's definitely a demographic on here who only measure success and happiness by education, career and money. They cant imagine there are people who don't prioritise music lessons, tutoring and advanced mandarin lessons. It's very London centric where the main aim for your children is a university education and a job in a one of the big four. There's huge swathes of the population who don't live like this or aspire to it.

If you want a 4th child have one and ignore this miserable shower of bastards..