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Mumsnet could do better (part trois)

1000 replies

EllaDisenchanted · 20/05/2024 07:20

Hello all, decompression thread 3️⃣

OP posts:
Thread gallery
95
DownNative · 31/05/2024 21:02

Met Police must ensure these people stay away from residential Jewish area in London tomorrow.

Mumsnet could do better (part trois)
YetAnotherSpartacus · 31/05/2024 22:00

I'm a non Jewish academic, many of my friends are academics, a few have posted uncritical "ceasefire now" messages on FB, interestingly none of them posted the Rafah meme. My strategy is not to engage, but to (periodically) simply post critical, factual, informative posts

Me too. I’m disappointed that colleagues’ have relied on social media critiques in the workplace too, bringing with them the stock phrases, righteous indignation and complete lack of depth and real critical thinking. It’s the latest groupthink basically. It’s the issue they buddy around and anyone against is an outsider and a pro- genocide settler colonialist apologist. I’m actually ashamed of them.

YesHesAPlonker · 31/05/2024 23:37

YetAnotherSpartacus · 31/05/2024 22:00

I'm a non Jewish academic, many of my friends are academics, a few have posted uncritical "ceasefire now" messages on FB, interestingly none of them posted the Rafah meme. My strategy is not to engage, but to (periodically) simply post critical, factual, informative posts

Me too. I’m disappointed that colleagues’ have relied on social media critiques in the workplace too, bringing with them the stock phrases, righteous indignation and complete lack of depth and real critical thinking. It’s the latest groupthink basically. It’s the issue they buddy around and anyone against is an outsider and a pro- genocide settler colonialist apologist. I’m actually ashamed of them.

It's the lack of critical thinking / group think we have seen before though isn't it? Many of the same players too.

How the heck did academia end up like this? was it always there and we just didn't see it? Depressing either way.

On a happier note, I hope, Shabbat Shalom everyone.

DownNative · 01/06/2024 08:01

YesHesAPlonker · 31/05/2024 23:37

It's the lack of critical thinking / group think we have seen before though isn't it? Many of the same players too.

How the heck did academia end up like this? was it always there and we just didn't see it? Depressing either way.

On a happier note, I hope, Shabbat Shalom everyone.

I think that type of groupthink has always been there to some degree or other, particularly within the UK. You could see it during the active phase of the Provisional I.R.A (collectively with Provisional Sinn Féin & Provisional Army Council known as the Provos) amongst some MPs, academics and even journalists.

Most people didn't want to see, refused to see it or couldn't believe it happens. I remember the Guardian for years defending Roy Greenslade from claims of being pro-PIRA. Then a few years ago and nearly 25 years after the Belfast Agreement Greenslade admitted it.

But damage done to some extent.

The degree and strength varied, but the basic principle has always been there, especially amongst those who distrust the Government and blame the West for every conflict in the world.

Done some reading, including Hamas 2017 charter and I'm of the view their "moderate" stance has been misrepresented in CITME.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 01/06/2024 08:49

How the heck did academia end up like this? was it always there and we just didn't see it? Depressing either way.

Academia was always left-leaning but it was a different left in the past, not as dogmatic or focused on identity politics. I'm sure that if a colleague had pinned up an "I love Maggie" poster they would have faced some criticism but the university was a site for real debate about other issues. I must say, though, that the majority of the left and academics always leant towards Palestine - but never, ever, in my experience, were my colleagues pro-terrorist. Given some of the actions of those I work with over the last month, I do now wonder ...

Humdingerydoo · 01/06/2024 18:31

Done some reading, including Hamas 2017 charter and I'm of the view their "moderate" stance has been misrepresented in CITME.

This always does my head in! Their current charter basically says they reserve the right to still attack Israel at any point in the future. People refuse to see that though. And then we have the issue that the charter they were voted in on was one that called for death to Jews and Israel 🤪 People actively voted for that, and they actively voted in a terrorist organisation with a terrorist agenda. That was who they chose, yet the world acts surprised at how that all turned out, and that Israel turned more politically right-wing as a result of that in order to protect themselves. It's just bad decision after bad decision but obviously only Israel gets the blame. ARGH!

Anyway, hope everyone is well! I'm currently in Finland and absolutely disgusted that I've not heard this year's Finnish Eurovision song played a single time. I was expecting denim shorts to feature heavily but no 😭

Humdingerydoo · 01/06/2024 19:59

quantumbutterfly · 01/06/2024 19:32

How have I never heard this song before??

Finland really is great though, although I might just be saying that because of the heatwave we've had the whole time we've been here. Everywhere is nice when it's sunny with a pleasant breeze and there are outdoor pools and beaches nearby! There are also swimming pools and soft play in bunkers for when the Russians attack, which is all sorts of crazy. Like, a whole underground city.

It's just a shame there aren't enough men in inappropriately revealing denim shorts around.

Humdingerydoo · 01/06/2024 20:03

In April, the temperature in Finland apparently increased by 50°C 😳😳😳😳😳😳 Not sure I would've been quite as fond of the country a month earlier

BeretInParis · 01/06/2024 21:00

Is anyone marching tomorrow?

RivkahRose · 01/06/2024 22:06

TLDR: thank you for being a support network in these worrying times ❤️ the following message may be incoherent - it is my thoughts and feelings from my overwhelmed mind.

Hi, so I was on here a while ago, (different username) and had to take some time off as it all got too much for me, aka, the cesspit that we are calling the CITME board.

When the war broke out, my heart bled for the families, the hostages, the victims, the people. As other posters have said before; it felt personal. I actually don’t have friends or family in Israel* but as a Jewish woman in the UK it is an important part of my identity. It is my safe space to know there is one place in the world that would accept me for me - and given the current state of things here it’s even more important to me than before. Anyway, the silence was deafening after the atrocities of October 7th. I kept waiting for someone to say something to me. I kept waiting to see more online, a social media push… but of course there was nothing or practically nothing. When I posted about the rise of antisemitism here and the attacks that were happening in the UK, about British Jews being abused, houses painted on, my child’s nursery having to step up the security… I still heard nothing. It really resonated with me that people just didn’t care. But why? I have friends, why would they not care this is happening? Why didn’t they show support? I mean we all know the answer here but the hurt was unpalatable. The truth is people don’t like Jews

How are we living in a world where Hamas have won a social media war and regular people across the world are lapping up the propaganda? So many deaths and attacks and such bias. Why don’t people care that Israelis are being attacked all the time. A poster from another thread said something along the lines of would the world look differently if thousands of Israelis were being killed, aka, if Israel hadn’t of invested in protecting its citizens and instead used them as human shields. So essentially people shouting “but 1000 isn’t comparable to 30,000” just want more Israeli deaths… so if the “homemade” rockets killed 10,000 Israelis it would be fair game?!

I still find it completely, overwhelmingly bizarre, that terroists came into Israel, attacked and did worse to those innocent people, took hostages, declared a war, paraded bodies around, shared footage of some civilians in Gaza celebrating, broadcast their atrocities, and the world turned round and said yeah we blame Israel too. I can’t believe these hate marches have been going on our streets for months.I can’t believe that people are claiming that nothing antisemitic happens. I don’t feel safe going into the city, let alone my local city centre. I feel targeted, I feel hated, I feel alone.

I cheer inside when I see some of the usernames that have been trying to talk sense into those who are determined not to listen on the CITME board. Thank you. I tried, I tried compassion and understanding on both sides, but I couldn’t carry on. I felt I was banging my head repeatedly against a wall. It’s just a board of hate.

I couldn’t be a part of it any more. It was doing my mental health no good. Everything on that board is topsy turvy. Everyone has to have a link to something - only a link they deem okay though, Al Jazeera - tick/ the guardian - tick! No you can’t have an Israeli newspaper as that’s biased, no you can’t have the mail, obviously!! * X is fine and you can have Hamas supporters of course, but If you mention, Rachel Riley lord help you.

Moreover, it’s a playground for tit for tat, pointless points, derailing, just echoing the same thing Israel (ahem - Jew) is bad. Throwing around words like genocide, being facetious, being nasty, being petulant in arguments. It’s is a truly unhealthy place, and I can’t believe mumsnet is allowed to have it up!!!

Anyway, I came to this board in hope to find out I wasn’t alone, and I feel over the past few months I know you other posters. Odd as it sounds! It’s so refreshing to not feel so alone in this, so thank you. You have all given me hope.

I wear my Magen David with pride, I am a Jew. My children are Jews. We are proud of who we are. Israel is significant and important to us and we stand with the people of Israel who live under attack.

what is this strange and offensive obsession for pro-Palestine people to spell Israel Isreal?
** my grandmother always told us to hide being Jewish and to not tell people unless we trusted them - I now see why.
although one regular who usually denounces the mail posted something when the narrative suited them - the irony.
*I’ve reported so much hate on there already
**I find it very testing how people on the CITME board state there is no antisemitism or worse say “it won’t be long till the antisemitism card comes out” it’s like a stick to beat us with.

RivkahRose · 01/06/2024 22:17

Not quite sure why my text became italics and the * have gone missing! But you get the gist

quantumbutterfly · 02/06/2024 01:20

@RivkahRose You're not alone, you are part of a very supportive community actually.
When this board first started I was sad at the factionalisation of mumsnet, that posters felt safer in enclaves defined by race, nationality, religion, age but I can understand why, and this is a microcosm of what's happening in society.

There are still a few boards that are friendly..CITME is definitely not one of them, it's AIBU on crack.

EllaDisenchanted · 02/06/2024 06:12

@RivkahRose welcome (back) 🫂

OP posts:
PurpleChrayn · 02/06/2024 11:42

Welcome, RivkahRose.

What you wrote rang very true with me.

MissConductUS · 02/06/2024 12:10

The Israel Day parade is scheduled for later today in NYC. It's always a big event here, and security will be very tight. I'll be interested to see how far the protesters will try their luck with the NYPD.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/nypd-to-up-security-for-sundays-israel-day-parade-but-stresses-no-known-threats/

DownNative · 02/06/2024 13:39

RivkahRose · 01/06/2024 22:06

TLDR: thank you for being a support network in these worrying times ❤️ the following message may be incoherent - it is my thoughts and feelings from my overwhelmed mind.

Hi, so I was on here a while ago, (different username) and had to take some time off as it all got too much for me, aka, the cesspit that we are calling the CITME board.

When the war broke out, my heart bled for the families, the hostages, the victims, the people. As other posters have said before; it felt personal. I actually don’t have friends or family in Israel* but as a Jewish woman in the UK it is an important part of my identity. It is my safe space to know there is one place in the world that would accept me for me - and given the current state of things here it’s even more important to me than before. Anyway, the silence was deafening after the atrocities of October 7th. I kept waiting for someone to say something to me. I kept waiting to see more online, a social media push… but of course there was nothing or practically nothing. When I posted about the rise of antisemitism here and the attacks that were happening in the UK, about British Jews being abused, houses painted on, my child’s nursery having to step up the security… I still heard nothing. It really resonated with me that people just didn’t care. But why? I have friends, why would they not care this is happening? Why didn’t they show support? I mean we all know the answer here but the hurt was unpalatable. The truth is people don’t like Jews

How are we living in a world where Hamas have won a social media war and regular people across the world are lapping up the propaganda? So many deaths and attacks and such bias. Why don’t people care that Israelis are being attacked all the time. A poster from another thread said something along the lines of would the world look differently if thousands of Israelis were being killed, aka, if Israel hadn’t of invested in protecting its citizens and instead used them as human shields. So essentially people shouting “but 1000 isn’t comparable to 30,000” just want more Israeli deaths… so if the “homemade” rockets killed 10,000 Israelis it would be fair game?!

I still find it completely, overwhelmingly bizarre, that terroists came into Israel, attacked and did worse to those innocent people, took hostages, declared a war, paraded bodies around, shared footage of some civilians in Gaza celebrating, broadcast their atrocities, and the world turned round and said yeah we blame Israel too. I can’t believe these hate marches have been going on our streets for months.I can’t believe that people are claiming that nothing antisemitic happens. I don’t feel safe going into the city, let alone my local city centre. I feel targeted, I feel hated, I feel alone.

I cheer inside when I see some of the usernames that have been trying to talk sense into those who are determined not to listen on the CITME board. Thank you. I tried, I tried compassion and understanding on both sides, but I couldn’t carry on. I felt I was banging my head repeatedly against a wall. It’s just a board of hate.

I couldn’t be a part of it any more. It was doing my mental health no good. Everything on that board is topsy turvy. Everyone has to have a link to something - only a link they deem okay though, Al Jazeera - tick/ the guardian - tick! No you can’t have an Israeli newspaper as that’s biased, no you can’t have the mail, obviously!! * X is fine and you can have Hamas supporters of course, but If you mention, Rachel Riley lord help you.

Moreover, it’s a playground for tit for tat, pointless points, derailing, just echoing the same thing Israel (ahem - Jew) is bad. Throwing around words like genocide, being facetious, being nasty, being petulant in arguments. It’s is a truly unhealthy place, and I can’t believe mumsnet is allowed to have it up!!!

Anyway, I came to this board in hope to find out I wasn’t alone, and I feel over the past few months I know you other posters. Odd as it sounds! It’s so refreshing to not feel so alone in this, so thank you. You have all given me hope.

I wear my Magen David with pride, I am a Jew. My children are Jews. We are proud of who we are. Israel is significant and important to us and we stand with the people of Israel who live under attack.

what is this strange and offensive obsession for pro-Palestine people to spell Israel Isreal?
** my grandmother always told us to hide being Jewish and to not tell people unless we trusted them - I now see why.
although one regular who usually denounces the mail posted something when the narrative suited them - the irony.
*I’ve reported so much hate on there already
**I find it very testing how people on the CITME board state there is no antisemitism or worse say “it won’t be long till the antisemitism card comes out” it’s like a stick to beat us with.

Edited

Hi! Don't believe we've met online before. 🙋‍♀️

As hard as it is, try to remember that there's a lot of people around the world who are supportive. I believe many of them are overwhelmed by the complexity of the war, the emotionally manipulative propaganda can seem insurmountable, feel they don't know enough to speak up in defence of Jewish people where they live outside of Israel and other factors.

But they are there!

I agree with what you said, including what some do to the name of the State of Israel including the awful "Israhell". This is emotional and psychological abuse which does initially disarm you at first for a while.

It's very difficult to think of things that could be done to help, but there are no quick fixes.

Take care of yourself first and foremost.

DownNative · 02/06/2024 14:24

Humdingerydoo · 01/06/2024 18:31

Done some reading, including Hamas 2017 charter and I'm of the view their "moderate" stance has been misrepresented in CITME.

This always does my head in! Their current charter basically says they reserve the right to still attack Israel at any point in the future. People refuse to see that though. And then we have the issue that the charter they were voted in on was one that called for death to Jews and Israel 🤪 People actively voted for that, and they actively voted in a terrorist organisation with a terrorist agenda. That was who they chose, yet the world acts surprised at how that all turned out, and that Israel turned more politically right-wing as a result of that in order to protect themselves. It's just bad decision after bad decision but obviously only Israel gets the blame. ARGH!

Anyway, hope everyone is well! I'm currently in Finland and absolutely disgusted that I've not heard this year's Finnish Eurovision song played a single time. I was expecting denim shorts to feature heavily but no 😭

Indeed!

What's most interesting about the 2017 charter is what it doesn't explicitly say yet hints at its true stance.

This thread and section really isn't the appropriate one for discussion of this matter as certain 👀 are reading at least once a day. Hello to them, I say! 😂

I will aim to PM you something soon. 👍

stomachamelon · 02/06/2024 21:11

@MissConductUS there are some horrendous pictures from the pro pals response.

stomachamelon · 02/06/2024 21:12

www.instagram.com/reel/C5Lspg5r2V3/?igsh=MXJ0a2pkcTZ4Mms0bA==

This made me chuckle though.

SpuytenDuyvil · 02/06/2024 21:13

My cousins are at the parade. I will let you know if I hear anything first hand.

DuskyBlueDepartingLight · 02/06/2024 22:02

Hi there,

I was on the Phoenix Cinema thread. Cracked, posted & outed myself as Jewish. (Don't know why, there have been worse threads, maybe it's cumulative or because I used to walk to shul that way?)

@DownNative I've really appreciated reading what you wrote about how to view social media posts if you want to counter disinformation & influence readers who are open to learning.

The posters presenting as intelligent, reasonable & compassionate, yet getting their covert AS in every time - they scare me more than the outright ignorance & naked hatred. It's chilling.

Glad I've found my way here. Sending solidarity & courage

SpuytenDuyvil · 02/06/2024 22:22

Quick followup: one cousin who went said there were way more than 40,000 people there and it was a joyous event. Police in very much in evidence but very few Pro Pals protesters.

EllaDisenchanted · 03/06/2024 02:03

Can’t sleep tonight. Posted on the citme board but probably shouldn’t have, I’m too worked up.

Im so frustrated by the Maldives thing. It makes no sense to me. The more isolated Israel feels, the more hypocritical they see the world to be, the less they will care about the world’s opinion. If the world really cared about peace between Israel and Palestine, the last thing they should do is to turn their backs on a people who already feel traumatised, betrayed, and abandoned after the worst massacre in the country’s history and whose hostages are still in captivity. How is that ever possibly going to help resolve the war?! It’s pouring fuel on the fire.

OP posts:
Humdingerydoo · 03/06/2024 06:57

Quite telling how many fewer people were marching for the release of the hostages than anti-Israel marchers every Saturday. Fucking depressing. I know last time they were all "oh I could never march anywhere where there will be Israeli flags" but then seeing as they'll march somewhere full of anti-semitism and pro-Hamas slogans, I obviously don't buy that excuse. Israeli lives obviously don't matter.

I agree with you @EllaDisenchanted , isolating Israel and showing just how little they care about Israelis is not the answer. The fact they have been openly showing that since the day of the massacre is just 🤯

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