Antisemitism

[bubbleandsqueak1976]

I read the posts on here with interest and often the subject of anti semitism comes up. I was brought up in a town in the South East. My mum gave me a book about Anne Frank when I was around 8 and I can remember asking ' what is a Jew?' as I had never met one. When I was about 14 a girl from northern Israel came to my school and I was asked to befriend her and help her settle in. I can remember being fascinated about her life in a Kibbutz and she used to show me
Hebrew writing. I don't recall ever hearing anything anti semitic about her or her brother as the only two Jewish kids - to my knowledge in the school. I also remember in my twenties encountering a group of lads from North London - white something and them having an absolute hatred for Jewish people. I can remember feeling utterly shocked as I'd never heard anti Jewish speak prior to this. Reading some of the recent posts on here it has made me wonder wherever there are pockets in the Uk with Jewish communities that experience antisemitism where the rest of the UK it does not occur as people simply have never met a Jewish person just their life- to their knowledge.Where I live I have only met 4 Jewish people in the Uk in my life and I am 47. The most Jewish people I have met were in Israel when I visited in 2000.

Nobody knows what is next and where will going to be safe, but that we should have a Plan B.

I hear the Jewish Autonomous Oblast is nice this time of year.

There's only so much he can do, really. At least he's not actively hurting our community the way other politicians have done in the past.

(Yes, that is how low the bar is 🙃 Yay for a politician who doesn't go out of his way to harm Jewish people!)

Thanks @Humdingerydoo I have nothing sensible to add - I pray for good, wise leaders that's all I can do atm but would like to see more solidarity protests/marches x

I'm trying to give Starmer the benefit of the doubt. He definitely eliminated the most toxic antisemites from Labour, which I really didn't think he'd be capable of. And I think his response to the rioters this week has been good - firm and unequivocal. So I'm hoping he also starts calling a spade a spade with the blatant Jew hatred at the Saturday marches.

I think he's going to be a lot more effective than we've possibly given him credit for. Well I hope so anyway!

Thank you for your support, and I'll join you in hoping for good and wise leaders! I think @Hélène79 is right about Starmer though, I'm also quite hopeful about it all. Which is a novel feeling when it comes to politics :)

I used to live in Finchley (am Jewish). That "anti-fascist" protest is disgusting and I saw that they consider all two-staters fascists too.

Thanks @Humdingerydoo I can see he has been effective in eliminating the bad elements. But what about the accusations of two tier policing (which I think are true)? I think Labour's identity politics approach (which is now mainstream) is very divisive and leads to resentment. And all their announcements since the election seem to be pouring petrol on the flame for anyone who wants a united society. I do think they'll be very authoritarian but not even handedly. We shall see!

That’s so sad. I work in a Jewish organisation and we have such a lovely guard from Eastern Europe (trying to be vague for anon purposes). He’d do anything for anyone and we’d be devastated if something happened to him.

To add re Starmer. I think he’s been decent actually considering he’s only been PM for a few weeks and he got rid of a lot of Labour anti-Semites I’ll hold out some hope.
if Corbyn was in power I’d be even more worried atm.

Dh used to work in security at various Jewish places, around the time of the Belgian and Danish attacks. I remember finding it bizarre that he was only armed with a walkie talkie...

The BBC news front page is a parody of itself this morning. Riots, "voices from anti-racism protests", "why a news website is a accused of fuelling riots", "big rise in antisemitic incidents".

I suggested going there to my husband and he just rolled his eyes at me. As this has become an increasingly common response on his part I no longer know what it means. So I guess it's possible it's a yes?? If so, I'll see you there!

My first thought is....sandwiched between Russia and China and with an existing population that is 93% ethnic Russian...what could possibly go wrong?

Looking more closely.... 14,000 square miles (Israel is 8,630sq.m), and the current population is only around 170,000. The weather sounds pretty rubbish though.

Yes but their flag is really pretty. So swings and roundabouts if you ask me!

Chat is really on one today!

And just to add, I'm finding it quite concerning how many people are calling the racist rioters Nazis yet saying that it's not a Jewish issue and that we should get back in our box and let others take centre stage as we're not currently the victims.

This is how it always begins - they take "our" word and change the meaning of it. So now Nazis are racist towards Muslims, not Jews.

I am NOT saying they're not also racist towards Muslims, it's pretty bloody clear that they are. I'm saying that in a few weeks/months/years the definition of a Nazi will have changed. And that scares me as it feels like it's just going to lead to further rewriting of history.

Tbf some of them seem to favour a swastika tattoo, I think that's why they're calling them Nazis?

Yes, I'm not disputing they're Nazis. It's the "they're Nazis but Jews aren't the ones under attack so please stop butting in" that's bothering me.

Jewish posters were being told to stop with their "whataboutery" on a thread about Nazis. It didn't sit well with me.

I would need a full report on the local cuisine before committing to the JAO. This household generally follows a Mediterranean diet and I can imagine the food is quite 'heavy' and low on roughage.

Although if we can still get to enjoy our weekly salmon, weekend bacon rolls (sorry) and decent wine then I can adapt.

Also does Duolingo do Yiddish?

I’m so depressed by the UK at the moment, I too have been doing the where to move to next research.

yes, duolingo does Yiddish. My son did it for a while, before switching to Arabic. I can't remember what dialect of Yiddish it was. (Not something I know a lot about!)

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurants-g2324042-JewishAutonomousOblastFarEasternDistrict.html

Does this help sway you?

Yes, I'm seeing quite a subtle but definitely obvious reframing of the narrative that's moving Zionists and by extension Jews to being 'the Nazis'. It's really fucking scary. It's becoming very similar to critical race theory, which doesn't allow Jews a space at the 'oppressed' table (since we're apparently white and rich or something) because we're apparently the oppressor.

The Finchley poster had 'Get fascists, racists, Nazis, Zionists & Islamophobes out of Finchley', so yes, putting Zionists on the same level as Nazis.

The left really need to sort out this demonisation of Zionism. If you don't want to be called an antisemite, don't sound exactly like them.

It's actually mad that we're even discussing this.

I'm worried it's too late to sort out. Zionists are now cast as the ultimate bogeyman and I can't see the way back from that because it's becoming more ingrained in the discourse. The left have got their fingers in their ears and people I thought were more moderate seem to be lapping it up now too.

I'm reading so many posts across MN now and thinking, fuck you really are so clearly a massive antisemite but because you've coded you're language and present yourself as an antiracist you've made it impossible for us to challenge.