Mumsnet is getting worse

[LondonMummer]

Seriously. Is it the same few people just name changing or is it really this toxic in the UK? There is so much poisonous Jewish hatred on here. I'm not talking hatred of Israel, just vile antisemitism on so many posts now.

I truly think I have to step away before I lose faith in humanity. Why does MN seem to attract so many hateful posters? Maybe it's the anonymity.

I can't keep calling it out. Im exhausted and actually deeply disturbed by it now.

I'm quite shaken about the bullying on that thread (I'm assuming you're referring to that) and others today. Literally being told we make it up and even some Jewish posters also minimising OP's fears. There seems to be this idea that antisemitism is only wrapped up in the Israel issue and that purposely trolling and antagonising Jewish posters just because they're Jewish isn't antisemitism. That telling us we're making it up isn't antisemitism and that we should just shut up and put up with it because we're apparently privileged. I feel like some of us have been firefighting this for weeks now and it's not making any dent.

I've tried to step away - DH has threatened to hide my laptop but I'm like a moth to a flame. It's seriously affecting my mental health and I feel done. It's so annoying though because I'm really not part of a Jewish community and my DH isn't Jewish so there's been a lot of posters on here that have made it feel like a mental lifeline the last few weeks. People that genuinely get it and genuinely care.

You've been amazing.

This also isn't my modus operandi. I'm not sure why I've got sucked in. I'm the person who frequently rolls their eyes at community hysteria.

I think there comes a point where we do have to step away. I can't police the internet. They get energy from the response and it goes on and on and on.

Maybe if they are just shouting into a void or an echo chamber they'll get bored more quickly.

But thank you for all the posts you've responded to. It's such a relief not be facing into it alone.

Nor mine! I'm genuinely a quiet and very unassuming person and generally keep my head below the parapet. I barely recognise myself just now. I said in another thread, I have always been very firm and call people out if they're being racist or Islamophobic, it's the big red line for me. So the hurt just now is just so intense because it's not reciprocated.

I also hate hysteria - I was just talking to DH about Ty Ann O*man because she absolutely drives me up the wall with her constant over-the-top outbursts on social media. I get that we need people like her, but at the same time the hysteria and jumping on every little thing as being antisemitic when it actually isn't, just doesn't help.

I totally agree with you. I am SO careful to only call it out when it is truly anti Jewish not anti Israeli policy.

I am no fan of the right wing Israeli government and in fact my husband and I were saying to our kids tonight that we actually don't have a problem with the Palestinian marches and flags per se and don't actually think that 'From The River To The Sea' should be banned unless it is done provocatively outside a Shul or similar.

Like you I think we have to be so careful not to dilute what is clear antisemitism. Of which there is more than enough

Although it does make my skin crawl I don't want it banned simply because it will be another weapon in their arsenal to beat us with. Hugo R*fkind did a good thread on it earlier

https://twitter.com/hugorifkind/status/1718670578796712354

It's hard to call out when it's not someone specifically saying "I hate Jews" or holding us to account for Israel. The stuff that gets to me is the outright hostility and frothing ranting, passive aggression, goading and trolling (I actually just got called a "troll hunter" by a usual suspect because I used the word trolling in that context)! But it's hard to pin that down - even though WE can see it, they always find a way round it and just start shouting "criticising Israel isn't antisemitism" even if Israel literally hasn't been mentioned. And the other problem is, often there's just no arguing with stupid. I'm just finding it so chilling and I feel the same fear as the OP of that other thread. And when it's the same users jumping in and out of threads specifically to antagonise and 'troll' Jews it's just so blatant and I don't understand how HQ can't see that.

But because we are trying so hard to be careful as you say, I suppose we just end up tiptoeing around it and then retreat to to avoid making a fuss. Because there's literally nothing we can say or do that will get people to understand our perspective, and we know we won't have our own BLM moment. On a brighter note, I have seen one or two posters that really made me shudder a few weeks ago but have turned out to be a lot more thoughtful now.

I think you had it when you say you can't teach stupid

That and people that just don't want to listen or change

So much trying to twist words to make people seem racist or bigoted themselves. I am finding that tactic rather funny now. It shows a desperation to try and discredit posters they find threatening.

We have at least 18 months of this conflict and then the after effects too. I would probably try to pace yourselves. However the general public and mumsnet will soon get clued up on these people. Then they will have no choice but to hide their jew hate. That in many ways to me is worse. I like to know if someone is a fuckwit.

OP, do not despair, I think you have more allies than you think, only that we are quieter, ashamedly so.
If you can’t go over you must go under.

You've both done done great posting but it is getting worse. The weight of the threads are all, understandably, about the awful pictures coming out of Gaza and the Hamas-asserted death toll. It is terrible. However, I think Mumsnet reflects western society, full of 'useful idiots'. The BBC is an active hindrance too. People just don't understand history, terrorism, hostages, war tactics, etc. and do t seem to want to. I feel very weary this evening.

Yeah it's definitely getting worse and I feel pretty mentally exhausted with it this evening. Just heard about the Oct 7 baby story, which has done me in. And then saw some posters on another thread demanding evidence of it and effectively refusing to believe it. Because obviously they don't trust the Jewish source.

I do like this little safe space over here though.

Hi, I’m not Jewish nor even in the UK so I hope you don’t mind me coming to this board specifically to tell you I am so appalled by what I am seeing around the world and what I am reading on mumsnet.

The virulent air of antisemitism seems all pervasive at the moment and it’s chilling and terrifying to see. I cannot begin to imagine how you must be feeling but please know that so many stand with you. (Not much comfort I’m sure but I really felt the need to say it).

Agree OP. I posted a similar post on the mumsnet sub Reddit. I feel that discussion is constantly being shut down by the same posters.

I just saw this posted on another thread, so sadly I'm not sure how long this will be a safe space for.

I thought the Jews got their own category on MN where they can post freely.

Really confused why they keep making posts complaining about censorship.

I am the OP of the thread from yesterday (actually a much more regular poster on other boards, but name changed for fear of anti-Semitism). Until now, I didn't know there was a Jewish Mumsnetters board, otherwise I'd have posted it here. So glad to have found this area and I hope it stays a safe and welcoming place.

That thread was so revealing Wibble. I’m glad you stopped it accepting further posts.

Im really feeling bogged down with it all. The news, the response to the news and the general atmosphere of apprehension. I’m not an anxious or worrying type normally, but this is just horrible on so many levels. I’m glad you’ve found this section of the site 💐

Can't tell you how nice it is to see you all here. I genuinely feel like I'm amongst friends.

@etmoietmoietmoi that's dreadful. Smacks of 'send them back to the ghetto'

I've been back at work today and off social media which was clearly a good thing.

@LondonMummer Yes, it was totally 'they've been given their yellow star and packed off to their little segregated area now so why the hell are they still here'!!

But also, I remember my dad saying when I was very, very young that if I ever heard someone refer to "the Jews" or "Jew" instead of Jewish people/Jewish then it was a sign their intentions were not coming from a good place. I think that's why "I thought the Jews got their own category" sent such a shiver up my spine. And yet it's such a normalised expression now. Everyone is using it and God I even use it! But it wasn't normal before was it? Can you imagine if someone referred to "the Blacks" on here - they'd (rightly) be banned!

Your dad was so very correct and gave you good advice there

Totally agree. I actually always say Jewish people for that exact reason. Cannot stand "Jews" or "The Jews" and in fact I've said so on a number of threads.

That’s really interesting that you feel that way@LondonMummerand @etmoietmoietmoi I am Jewish and I am a Jew, and I use those terms interchangeably. They use the word to degrade and vilify, I take it back and use it with pride because that’s what I am. They use the word to other me, I use it to take back its meaning and its power from people who mean me harm.
But! I’ll use the term Jewish here from now on because I didn’t realise some people felt that way and don’t want to offend or upset.

Every time I see one of your names pop up on the horrendous threads I give a little cheer. Today’s been a bit of a weird one, certain posters clearly struggling between maintaining their “I just care so much about Gaza” facade and their desire to insult Jewish posters.

It's really hard to explain but the word "Jew" goes right through me, like nails on a blackboard. I'm sure it never used to be so acceptable nor used so liberally. The media, even the BBC, use it so casually now. The first time it was used against me I was only 7 or 8 and I got called a "Jew frog" (because of my mum's nationality as well) and the word has totally scarred me since then, so I realise it might be a trauma thing.

I've used it myself on threads, like I'll say, "non-Jews", "I'm an ethnic Jew" or "British Jews" but I'm so hyperaware of it when I do use it. I see a lot of other Jewish posters using it - but we get a free pass? And I certainly don't expect or want you to stop using it! I just worry the more we use it ourselves, the more the haters who use it to 'other' us think it's OK.

I suppose it just took my breathe away to see that user saying "I thought the Jews got their own category". It felt so demeaning and dehumanising.

Every time I see one of your names pop up on the horrendous threads I give a little cheer

Aw that's made my heart burst, thank you ❤

Today’s been a bit of a weird one, certain posters clearly struggling between maintaining their “I just care so much about Gaza” facade and their desire to insult Jewish posters.

I think it's been getting worse - the insults are just so normalised, it's like they're thinking "finally, we get to say exactly what we want now, and we can even march and shout it"!

@25milesfromhome Sorry forgot to tag you into that!

@etmoietmoietmoi I agree with your Dad about usage of the word 'Jew'. My Dad taught me the same.

I feel so despairing tonight. The news about the flight in Russia and the Cornell University posts has really frightened me. And I'm usually a confident woman. 😞

I’ve always called myself Jewish, rather than a Jew. I hate feeling as if it’s an insult word, rather than just a fact (which it is, because I AM a Jew), but that’s how feels to me. My DF would only whisper the word Jewish once he was out the house and away from family or Jewish friends. It was so ingrained in him by his DPs and DGPs, that it wasn’t a safe word to say or thing to be, that it never left him. He was amazed but worried when he saw my DC wear Magen Davids and a Chai when they were growing up. When they went to uni in the early 2000s , they didn’t feel it was so safe and stopped wearing them. now I think we are well and truly back in my DFs time, because it’s absolutely getting increasingly unsafe to be obviously Jewish in public.

@ChickenSoupAndLokshen I feel very unsettled - it's affecting my sleep and work a bit. Not massively but I do feel scared, I'm just not sure what of, if that makes sense. I think if I'd brought my kids up to be Jewish I'd feel more frightened than I am. I feel so much empathy for all the mums with kids at Jewish schools who seem really scared just now. You used the word "despairing" and I think that's it really, isn't it.

I verbally only say Jewish but I do write Jew or Jews a lot when posting. Frankly that is a combination of me being lazy and sometimes the sentence just makes more sense to me that way

I think Jews or Jew being used offensively is really a matter of the sentence and what is being said itself. However that is just my opinion.

I am terrible really with these things. My family word sometimes use the Y word whilst I was growing up. So naturally I didn't realise some people found it offensive. It was actually on mumsnet one day I typed it after not needing use it for years. I can't remember what the thread was about. Possibly football supporters. Any I got a good telling off from one poster, then apologised and have never used the word again because now I know some people find it upsetting.

(A shame some of the antisemitisc posters don't act like myself and learn from their mistakes)