Mumsnet is getting worse

[LondonMummer]

Seriously. Is it the same few people just name changing or is it really this toxic in the UK? There is so much poisonous Jewish hatred on here. I'm not talking hatred of Israel, just vile antisemitism on so many posts now.

I truly think I have to step away before I lose faith in humanity. Why does MN seem to attract so many hateful posters? Maybe it's the anonymity.

I can't keep calling it out. Im exhausted and actually deeply disturbed by it now.

This is awesome. And I believe it truly is the only way forward.

Just as a follow-up to some PP comments, I prefer "Jews" or "the Jews." They aren't called Catholic people--they are called Catholics. Muslim people are called Muslims. I want that symmetry. "Jewish people" feels very othering to me.

What is the exact name of the Standing Together group on Facebook? I'm keen to follow them too but can't seem to find the right one.

@SpuytenDuyvil is referring to someone as a Jew rather than Jewish offensive?

Jew is the proper noun and Jewish is the adjective, so it depends on the sentence structure (pedantic alert!) I am a Jew because I am Jewish.

Thank you @SpuytenDuyvil!

@SpuytenDuyvil, are you a fellow NY'er?

My mother grew up in the city after she and her family left Germany, so we spent a lot of time there. I live in No. California now, but I am definitely an East Coaster. Thanks for asking

I have been wondering if anyone would notice my name😂

I'm from the Hudson Valley. I commuted into the city for many years, and Spuyten Duyvil is a station stop on Metro North's Hudson line. It looks lovely from the train.

If I'm not mistaken, it's one of the many Dutch place names in the city. I'm not surprised no one else noticed it. It's just a small neighborhood in the Bronx.

LondonMummer. I don’t know how to attach links but this is the Facebook homepage of Standing Together.

I'm absolutely done with the antisemitic b*tards on here. Last night one of the usual suspects started a thread ABOUT a thread that had been started last week by a Jewish poster. They waited until they knew most of you would not be around on a Friday night. I read her the riot act and it got deleted, not for the nasty and childish bullying that it was, but for being a TAAT. And now, this morning, another usual suspect has twisted and contorted a post I did yesterday to imply I'm an antisemite because in her warped mind I implied Israel = Jews. And to add insult to injury, she's suggested I make myself aware of people like Chomsky, Mate, Pappé, Maté (I KID YOU NOT) as individuals I could learn about antisemitism from. And the worst of it is, they are so ignorant that there's no arguing with them.

It's the same 2 individuals that start thread after thread, and I genuinely don't understand how MN can't see what they're doing. I've encountered plenty of antisemitism in my lifetime, but in the last 4 weeks I have genuinely never seen this level of unpleasant behaviour. Feel completely broken from these utter ghouls and vipers and MN is honestly very bloody far from resembling anything like a safe space for Jewish people. And they think we don't notice the name-changing yet they use exactly the same style of writing and language as their last 'persona'. It terrifies me that people like them might be my neighbour or colleague, or worse, that they might get anywhere near my elderly parents, etc etc. It's become unbearable.

@etmoietmoietmoi I didn't see the thread last night, so I don't know what it was about, but I'm glad you got it shut down. Your firefighting efforts are genuinely appreciated.

Yes you are a superstar but it must be very draining. Please make sure you don't let these fuckwits upset you too much.

MN has been disappointing over the last few weeks <understatement>

I've stopped looking at those threads now, other than one I commented on early on. They're just too much and it's clear that there are people on there who are not commenting in good faith and frankly are there to shit stir. I've never uttered these words before but honestly they are not good for my mental health.

I commend anyone persevering on those threads and trying to correct some of the misinformation but remember you don't owe anyone on here anything, least of all some of the individuals who have clearly joined with an agenda.

You need to look after yourself etmoi because you won’t change the mind of anyone who isn’t open to considering other information, opinions or personal experience.

Its a truly grim time to be Jewish. DF phoned me from the city centre about 45 mins ago to listen to the chanting at another Pro-Palestinian march. He said there were over 1k there (like at last weekends). It was horrible to listen to even for a minute or so.

In the last week I've reminded myself that I'm not changing the world or ridding it of antisemitism by arguing with two posters on Mumsnet.

These people have no influence and they are looking for arguments.

So be it

I think I can contribute more to the fight against antisemitism elsewhere. In a more systemic and profound way.

I don't argue back. I report posts that are antisemitic and they are almost always taken down.

The more we argue back, the more they trend and the more engagement they get. The best are the idiots looking for trouble when no one replies.

Step away. It's such a relief to give yourself permission to do so.

@LondonMummer You’re right but they’re just so annoying that sometimes I just can’t help myself. I’m not trying to tackle antisemitism on Mumsnet because I’ve realised it’s futile. I actually do want to be involved in discussions. It’s frustrating when any reasonable civilised(ish) thread or exchange gets derailed by persistent ignorant little mosquitoes.

I hope no one minds but I wanted to send solidarity and love. I've been very, very shocked by what I've read on here in the last few weeks, the absolute deluge of misinformation/disinformation, dismissiveness and outright cruelty has felt like a kick in the stomach and I can't imagine what its like for you guys. Please believe that some of us do fully understand how vile and dangerous any antisemitism is and also get the complexities of the current tragic situation. Even though it's not very much comfort, please know that you have sincere support.

Uricon2. Thank you. It means a lot right now. As you say, the situation is so complex, there is so much misinformation around and the conflict goes back so long, that it’s hard for anyone to try get a handle on what’s really going on.

Yes this is basically the conclusion I have come too

Well unless I see they are really getting at someone then school them a bit. However I won't waste more than a 2 or 3 posts on them if they argue back.

Last night one of the usual suspects started a thread ABOUT a thread that had been started last week by a Jewish poster. They waited until they knew most of you would not be around on a Friday night. I read her the riot act and it got deleted, not for the nasty and childish bullying that it was, but for being a TAAT

etmoietmoietmoi I told you that wasn’t me. It was TakeMe2Insanity.

It's the same 2 individuals that start thread after thread, and I genuinely don't understand how MN can't see what they're doing

If I am meant to be one of them then you’re wrong. I’ve never started a thread in all the time I’ve been on MN. Ask MNHQ if you don’t believe me.

I agree with this, especially the fact too many people "just don't understand history, terrorism, hostages, war tactics, etc. and do t seem to want to."

Just last night I had a few posting Ad Hominems towards me for pointing out what Law Of Armed Conflict actually says and stating they don't even understand it. Tried to paint me as an "extremist" for which their posts were deleted. One of them said they were temp banned for a week and outright stating I'd reported them for antisemitism which was news to me as I'd been off here ill when they were banned by Mumsnet!

So, they know they're losing against reasoned arguments which is why they resort to emotional rants and trying to bully anyone who counters them.

In a debate, letting emotions control you is a terrible idea and a sure-fire way to lose them too.

My advice is report EVERY personal attacks you see to Mumsnet. Doesn't matter if its directed at you or someone else - I do both when I see them.

DownNative

You are so right on this and your posts are always very interesting and informative. I guess some people just don't like factual information or their narrative being blow out the water

Yeah, I think they ultimately don't understand that I come at conflicts from the perspective of terrorism, security and counter-terrorism.

I learned long ago to control emotions as a way to stay alive since we'd been targeted by PIRA. So, I use what I know about terrorism which includes the problem of sneaking regarders. Its also why I don't get into moralising debates and much prefer the practical reality of conflicts. Moral platitudes is all well and good, but many people who post them fall flat when you focus on the practical aspects. War, like politics, is about the possible - not the idealistic ideas people easily post. The calls for ceasefires isn't practical and is actually music to Hamas’s ears too.

I suggest all of you here acquaint yourselves with sneaking regardism. One of the tells is anger whenever focus is shifted onto a terrorist group. I've mentioned Roy Greenslade, a former Guardian journalist, who was a sneaking regarder of PIRA for decades. His boss and colleagues at the Guardian weren't knowledgeable enough to spot it.

It's a real thing.

Another tell is they never really spotlight the atrocities carried out by terrorist groups. A variation of "I condemn.....but...." is used.

I see a lot of it in the CITME section.