TTC no.2 after successful IVF for no.1

[Chocoholic85]

Hi,
I’m just after some advice and to see whether anyone is in the same boat!
Just found out that my 3rd FET failed.
We are very lucky to have DD who came from our first fresh transfer. We were also very fortunate to get 5 frozen embryos from that round so have been trying for a sibling. 1st FET was BFN, 2nd was a chemical pregnancy/early miscarriage and 3rd now is failed. Down to the last two and starting to feel the pressure and also wondering why on earth it isn’t working?!
We have unexplained infertility so nothing was ever found with our initial tests and I was 34 when we had out first IVF round so odds were in our favour. I read somewhere that at 34 around 50% of embryos are abnormal so I guess out our 6 maybe the last 3 were all abnormal. I’m also worried something has changed since I had to have a csection for DD. I did have an ultrasound which showed the scar had healed fine and there no niches, I’m wondering if there are adhesions that might not have been seen on the ultrasound though.
Would love to hear any advice for what to do next or from anyone else in a similar position. Thanks x

@KLM25 Yes it would be through the nhs and we wouldn't be eligible for IVF obviously but further treatment for my partner such as the operation I think they would do? And also check my tubes etc which I didn't have done before. Although feeling rather confused as I know now we conceive naturally, I just hope it happens again without having to go through ivf or anything. IVF would be last resort for us, we would probably give it another 2 years of trying but it's more if it's worth my partner having this op for the varicocele. Especially now the sperm met the egg, do we just wait it out for a bit? X

@Eggling That’s such wonderful news to read this morning ❤️ I’m so very pleased for you and keeping everything crossed. I know you’re bound to be really scared but you’ve crossed a massive hurdle there. Every day will bring you a step closer and your holiday is going to be the perfect distraction.

@CycleGirl20 I’m sorry, I realised I hadn’t replied to you! It’ll be a frozen transfer. Yes the progesterone causes me all sorts of bother ☺️ When I had more time on my hands with our very first transfer (I was furloughed), I used to lie down afterwards and I felt more confident that it had absorbed. Obviously nowadays life is very different and busy (happily so) and I’m constantly wondering whether it’s working! I need to just trust the fact that they’re testing my levels pre transfer and calm down about it I think x

Eeek that's so exciting @Eggling ! Congratulations ❤️ I know it's really hard to get excited because we try and protect ourselves but hopefully you have a little Christmas bump!
A holiday will be a great distraction, where are you going?

@Swirls346 I think it’s really positive that you were able to conceive naturally. I understand that it’s difficult to know what to do next. I think if it was me I would maybe look into having those investigations alongside trying naturally, if that’s a possibility? If it’s on the NHS then you wouldn’t be losing anything and could always withdraw at any time if you had good news. Hard to say without knowing how the whole referral process would work and how long it might take x

Thanks so much everyone - I think I'm a bit in shock. I'd said I was just going to test at home but I might ask for a beta when they call tomorrow to try and get it to sink in. Think one day at a time is going to be the mantra!

We are off to Kos for a week @Swirls346 - hoping for a bit of sun and a week off doing the washing up 😅 any tips for keeping a 2 year old happy for 4 hours in a plane gratefully received!

@Eggling hopefully that means they have their own seat? I found flights with our daughter when she was on our laps much harder! I bought her a kind of Montessori-style book with laces and poppers and all sorts in it and didn't give it to her until we got on for the novelty factor. We also have these spinners which you can stick on the window and tray. LOTS of snacks. And inevitably some screen time. If you have a nice big muslin then you can tuck it into the seat pocket in front and they can lay their legs out flat.

@loulamay great tips, thanks, especially the muslin! Yes she has her own seat. I've bought some sticker books and downloaded some programmes she likes, our flight out is early morning so she'll have been up since 3 so I hope she'll at least sleep some of the way 🤞🤞🤞

You inspired me - I just bought a sticker book on Amazon too! :-)

@Eggling congratulations!!!

Amazing news @Eggling! So delighted for you and keeping all fingers crossed and hopefully all goes smoothly. Will catch up on everyone else news tomorrow x

Can I ask you all your advice, please? After my egg retrieval, I went back on the pill - I hadn't been on it for a couple of months obviously and I've been very emotional the past two weeks, which I thought was maybe the hormone come-down from IVF but am actually now remembering that I felt like this when I was last on the pill and I suspect it might be to blame for my feelings. I'm on one called Degestrogel.

Just spoke to my husband about it and he said 'Why don't you just come off it?' and I started to cry. Part of me is SO scared that if by some miracle we got pregnant naturally, the chances of the pregnancy miscarrying are SO high at my age, or worse, that the pregnancy might continue but we would find out down the line that the baby had Downs or similar and would have to make a horrible decision. I'll talk to my therapist about it but wondered if anyone understood how I felt. Also wanted to ask, for those of you who DO use contraception, what are you on? Only if you're happy to share. x

I would never go on my pill again because it had such an effect on my moods . I was on it for 10 years and It just masks all my problems.
I understand why you are taking it but it's no good feeling like that. You could try tracking your cycle and avoiding the fertile week (if you don't want to conceive naturally). Or you could use condoms?
If we end up having baby #2 naturally then I will probably have to think about contraception afterwards. But for now we are hoping on a miracle x

Just about catching up 😅😂

@KLM25 re cyclogest I'm pretty sure I read absorption is pretty much complete within 30 mins? The residue just takes a while to work itself out. If that helps reassure at all?! That's great you've started your meds. Are you feeling okay with them so far?

@Swirls346 I am so sorry you started bleeding, that must have been devastating after your hope. How are you feeling? That sounds really tricky re what to do. Can you not proceed with referrals for fertility stuff and continue to TTC naturally?

@CycleGirl20 frozen cycles are easier - less drugs mainly. That said I had bad headaches with the oestrogen tablets for the first week taking them and didn't have any side effects with stims so that was a pain. You'll probably still have quite a lot of scans if you're natural modified. But generally, yes still easier.

@loulamay can't be long until your trip now? Hopefully that will be a good distraction. I haven't been on any contraception since we started TTC our first, so 4.5 years now. I don't think I'll ever want to go back on anything hormonal as it's nice not feeling 'medicated' but equally can understand why you're taking it. I'm quite a bit younger so don't have the same concerns re conceiving naturally. But equally we seem totally unable to do so, so contraception for us feels rather pointless! Like @Swirls346 if we are ever lucky enough to have a second I'll reconsider. I'd probably try the copper coil to avoid hormones but obviously not an option in your situation.

@TTC6 definitely don't feel bad about the drinks! No decent evidence it has any effect. Personally I hardly drink alcohol or caffeine anyway but if I fancy the odd glass of wine I don't stop myself. Infertility causes enough inconvenience already!

@Eggling have a brilliant holiday. Plane tip - wrap everything. Literally everything, books, pens, snacks, etc etc. added entertainment and time killer.

@loulamay I completely understand how you feel. I’m older than you so the chances of it happening naturally are so so unlikely, but it still crosses my mind and I have exactly the same worries as you regarding the likely consequences. I’m not much help re contraception as I’m not on any, but I suppose I vaguely track my fertile window on that Flo app plus I’m sorry to say that DTD is not as often as it once was, with a 2 year old, and more or less back to back IVF or investigations this year. My poor fiancé 🤦‍♀️ It’s another source of guilt for me along with everything else 😂

Thanks @SErunner, yes 30 minutes is the time I’ve always had in my mind. The problem is just that with the timing of the pessaries (they seem to be a bit strict about that), I haven’t always got 30 minutes afterwards in the morning. I’m on Lubion too so there’s no worries administering that, I’ll just have to remind myself of that.
Yes I’m glad to have started the meds. I feel pretty normal tbh. Now and again I’ve had a headache with the progynova, but not this time so that’s a relief. I’ve got the scan on Sunday, so will see what happens. Our little boy has a bad cough and a cold so I haven’t been getting as much sleep as the last cycle, I’ve no idea if that has any effect on your lining?! It’s getting to that time of year when colds are rife anyway isn’t it, so nothing I can do about that I suppose.

@Eggling have an amazing holiday! Hope you’re doing ok. Some fab tips about entertaining toddlers on flights, I’ll be bookmarking some of those myself 😊 x

Thanks guys.

I stopped taking the pill yesterday - still feeling like crap (my side effects seem to be increased anxiety, feeling like I'm not parenting right, waking up feeling uneasy and complete irrationality - all super fun) but hopefully as the hormones subside I'll feel better.

I also track my cycles through the Clue app so I think we'll just do that and avoid the few fertile days of the month.

On an unrelated note, we had our daughter's 2 year progress report back from nursery yesterday and they think that her speech needs some work. I'm really surprised - at home she chats all the time and strings together 3 or 4 words happily, but she must be quieter at nursery, or maybe we're the only ones that can understand her?! Wondered if anyone had had any similar experiences or know if kids can just be quieter at nursery? With my current mental state I've been in tears over it worrying that she's talking but not being understood there and it's making her unhappy (whilst fully realising that this is probably NOT the case because she goes in all smiles, the ladies are wonderful and she has a lovely time. FFS).

The worry is never ending isn't it, @loulamay! Have you had a HV check recently? We get one between 2/2.5. Might be helpful to just get another opinion? You could ask for one if you're concerned? I'm sure you know her well and as you say she might just be a bit quieter at nursery. No harm getting a second opinion though as they've flagged it. Totally normal for some to develop speech quicker than others through from what I've read. Easier said than done but try not to worry. And I'm sure you're being a brilliant mum ❤️

@KLM25 I never lay down after mine? Were you advised to? I got headachey on progynova too. Hope it settles soon. There are so many bugs going round. We seem to have had one continuously for weeks. Hope your son is better soon too. I can't imagine it would affect your lining really, try not to worry x

Eurgh my period has arrived early. I know I shouldn't have any expectation of conceiving naturally given it's never happened but it can't help but feel hopefully each month and it does feel a bit of a blow when it rocks up! Supposed to have my smear test tomorrow as well 🙄 hope you all have a nice evening x

@loulamay I think if you aren't worried about her speech then I wouldn't worry what the nursery say. Some children are naturally quieter in busier settings. My little one has just turned 22 months and is saying lots now but sometimes in bigger groups isn't as chatty. He's very sociable and understands everything. I honestly wouldn't worry she sounds like she's doing great. Hope ur ok xx

@SErunner argggh I know the exact feeling when the period arrives. It's horrible. You do definitely hold on to hope. And like with this chemical I've had this month (first ever natural conception) I feel like I'm even more hopeful so will probably crush me even more than it did before when period arrives.
Going to try and stay chilled as I can though and a busy time of year coming up so lots to focus on!!

Ho everyone just checking in, hope you're all ok

@SErunner sorry about your period, it's always a bummer even when you're expecting it, like a nasty little reminder (that then needs dealing with for days afterwards!). Hope you've had a good weekend regardless.

@loulamay I agree, you will know your child best and it may just be different behaviour in different settings, HV might set your mind at ease though?

We are almost packed for hols, flight at some godawful hour of the morning 😅 my anxiety levels are super high and I'm going to the loo every few minutes to check for blood - just trying to tell myself that this is a different pregnancy to last time and I know my body can do this. Hopefully will feel better with each milestone - I think once I reach 6 weeks that will help as I started bleeding before then last time, and then hopefully the 7 week scan. Just hyper aware of every twinge atm!

Thanks all! I feel like my hormone fog has lifted thank god so I am seeing it all in a different light (I swear, I am never going back on the pill ever again). Her language is of zero concern to me so I'm not going to bother saying anything - if she's a little quieter at nursery then so be it, as long as she goes in and out with a smile I'm not worried!

@KLM25 thank you - and I know what you mean about your sex life not being what it used to be! just another downside to infertility :-(

@Eggling I feel you on the checking for blood - it's such a nerve-wracking time! Really hope you can get some chill time on holiday!

@SErunner I'm sorry lovely - and a smear test to boot! no fun at all!

We fly this evening to Malaysia and are pretty much ready to go. Can't wait for some sun!

Hi everyone,
@Eggling and @loulamay hopefully your holidays have begun! Hope the flights go ok and you both have an amazing time.
@Eggling I completely understand how anxious you must be, I’d be the same, you’re bound to feel better with every milestone and hopefully the holiday and a change of scenery will help too and then before you know it, it’ll be the 6 week scan.
@loulamay Glad you’ve emerged from the hormone fog! It definitely affects your mood and thinking so that’s great that you’re not so worried about your daughter now. I was going to say the exact same thing, if she’s going in happily with no tears then that’s really positive. Plus I think they’re naturally much more chatty at home, our little boy’s the same.
Thanks @SErunner, no, the clinic never advised me to lie down after the pessaries, it’s probably just something that I’ve read on here or another forum and it’s got into my head!! I’ve got no real reason to doubt that I’m absorbing it and they’re checking my levels this time too, so I just need to chill about it I think.

I had my lining scan on Sun morning, day 9, it was 7.8mm and trilaminar, no fluid or anything else sinister to report. The sonographer just said that I had a 12mm follicle and because it was over 10mm she had to report it. Cue me googling that and worrying slightly until I heard from my clinic yesterday morning 😏 Anyway, they said my doctor was happy with the preparation of my endometrium and have scheduled my FET for next Tues 31st.

Can I just ask you all when you started progesterone? We’ve agreed not to follow the ERA result again as I have my doubts about its validity. I said I’d prefer to go back to my original protocol which was successful with our son, which was 5 clear days of progesterone and then the transfer on day 6. My clinic in their email have said to start progesterone Friday which would be 4 clear days of progesterone and then the transfer on day 5 (Tues). I’ve queried it anyway and also asked for some reassurance about the follicle. Just waiting to hear back. I feel a little bit like an awkward patient but when I think about how much we pay for all of this, I feel like I have to speak up if something is bothering me. Hopefully will hear back today or tomorrow and I won’t talk myself out of a transfer 🤦‍♀️😂 x

We made it! Super long outbound flight but the break in Malaysia was so worth it and we're so happy to be here!

@KLM25 I did at least 5 days of progesterone if not more. 4 seems low?

Unfortunately, we had the news today that all six embryos are abnormal. Feeling so disappointed and not sure what to do next. I think I need a few days for the news to settle in. I knew my age would be a factor but with 6 to test I thought we might get one.

@loulamay So glad you’ve made it to the sea and the sunshine 😊 It’s cold and grey here so you’re definitely in the right place! Was the flight ok? I’m sure it’s a distant memory now. Malaysia sounds amazing too, hope you all have a wonderful time.

I’m so sorry to hear about your embryos 😏 Of course you’d have expected to get one from the six, you’re bound to be very disappointed. The highs and the lows of all of this are so extreme, aren’t they? I suppose the important thing to remember is that you’ve still got options. Like you say, you’ll need a few days to let the news settle in and then you’ll be able to have a think and decide on your next move. Plus maybe it’s a good thing at the moment to be in such a beautiful place and have some distractions.

Yes I’ve looked back on all of my protocols and I’ve always had 5 clear days of progesterone and the transfer on the 6th day. The ERA even suggested that I should have 12 hours more than that so I started the night before the first clear day with my last transfer. Anyway, I just want to go back to what worked for me, so I questioned it and my doctor said I could start prog today so that will be 5 clear days. I also asked about the follicle and had an explanation about the rationale behind that which 95% satisfied me ☺️ I’m definitely overthinking everything but after 4 failed implantations, I think it’s impossible not to 😏

I’ve had such differing advice from clinics on how to time the pessaries and Lubion as well but I’ve decided to do a pessary when I wake up, the Lubion early afternoon during nap time and then the other pessary when I go to bed. I’m not sure it makes any difference plus I suppose I’ll have the blood test the day before the transfer. I was definitely more relaxed about timings with my very first transfer which worked plus I was only on pessaries back then, so I’m going to try to chill out! I can’t help myself asking if any of you have been on 2 x 400mg Cyclogest and 1 x Lubion though and how you spread them out?!

Hope everyone else is ok x

Thanks @Swirls346. It's crap when it rocks up isn't it. Still, over and done with for this month now and on to another cycle! How are you getting on?

@Eggling hope you've settled in to holiday vibes now and are managing to relax a little. Continuing to hope all goes well for you. I feel like the constant knicker checking went on for months for me the first time round!

@loulamay I'm so sorry to hear about your embryos. It must feel awful after all the effort doing this takes. Glad you made it for your trip though, and that the flight was okay. Hopefully a space for some R&R and to give you some headspace for a bit.

@KLM25 glad your scans were looking okay. Yes I had 5 clear days of progesterone for all of mine. My understanding of ERA is it's not got any good evidence to support it, I think you're doing the right thing ignoring it. Your plan for the lubion sounds sensible - middle ish of the two pessaries? But with a once a day dose I can't imagine it makes any difference. Will be thinking of you on Tues x