Thread 32 | TTC#1 | Making the move from conception to infertility. We've taken some blows but we are not beaten

[Jamon]

Hi all. We're a group of first timers who've been plugging away on the conception boards for some time. The support here is amazing so if you're in a similar boat please jump onboard.

Time to hand hold through treatments and support each other through to becoming the mums we deserve to be 💪🏼🌸🙏🏼

She just said they will be sent to my GP in a few weeks. Trying not to think about it honestly. I have bloods booked for the 20th so I might ask about making an appointment to discuss the results then. Feel a bit silly that she wouldn’t give me a clue. No point me worrying though, nowt I can do either way. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Good luck today penguin - hope all goes well and fx xxx

Know what you mean about the not drinking struggle - I've given it up, but more to give DH moral support while he tries to get his sperm fragmentation down.

Fantastic news on line progression otters!! Sorry I haven't responded to your message - it was hectic with the Fertility Show all weekend!

Glad you found the Fertility Show useful winging - I thought it was excellent! Will go into more detail below!

I haven't got a scooby when it comes to scans mouse, sorry! Even when they're pointing at follicles on the screen, all I do is nod with interest and pretend I see exactly what they're talking about (I don't)

Spa day sounds fab kwick! Enjoy it!!

Great news on weight loss flash!! DH and I weighed ourselves today after a week on our new diet from nutritionist - he's lost 4 pounds and I've lost two! Very pleased - especially with DH progress as it's the real reasonwe're doing this diet. Weight loss for me is a bonus!

So - I spent 2 full days at the Fertility Show (I know, what a sad keeno ha ha), but I thought it was FABULOUS. I tried to avoid the stalls (apart from regulator and professional societies - will come on to that later) as I didn't want to be conned into anything, but the seminars and Q&A sessions were really great.

The highlight for me was the Q&A session on male fertility (Dr Ramsay, our urologist, was on the panel). They all acknowledged that testing, diagnosing and treating male infertility has been hugely neglected (a large part due to ICSI hitting the scene and taking the focus away from proper male diagnosis) and we are woefully behind where we should be in male fertility research. They all said that nutrition and diet is important with strong evidence that the Mediterranean diet is most beneficial for sperm health (which is what DH is on).

I asked them about IMSI which my clinic has recommended and they unanimously said IMSI is "a load of rubbish"! There's no evidence that there's any benefit and may even harm chances due to the long delay in the sperm being introduced to the egg. They made the very good point that ICSI was invented to combat low sperm count/motility/morphology issues so if there's no issue there then not even ICSI is required if sperm health is good. DH's results on those parameters have always been excellent so if we fix the fragmentation issue, then I'm not really seeing how ICSI let alone IMSI will benefit us. It was so great to get impartial advice on it!

I took my bee in my bonnet about dna fragmentation testing not being standard to the regulator who said I needed to speak to the British Fertility Society and British Andrology Society as they set the standards for the profession. He was interested in our story though and asked me to get in touch with him personally as it may be that the regulator needs to look at this issue more closely in partnership with those societies.

So off I trot to the stands for those societies to get their views - the Andrology Society tell me they've been banging the fragmentation testing drum for decades but can't get anywhere. The British Fertility Society told me that they see a lot of merit in DNA fragmentation testing and there is a correlation between high DNA fragmentation and failed fertility treatment, but as there are several tests for it available and they haven't seen enough evidence which points to which one is best, they can't yet set it as an industry standard. However, they told me a major new bit of research is due to come out on it soon which is likely to influence and inform future standards and guidelines. Frustrating, as we are the ones caught in the middle and going through failed cycles of IVF!

Also went to talks about coping strategies, managing relationships and increasing odds of IVF success. All common sense on that last one (weight, alcohol etc), but the big shocking realisation for me was the impact my previous smoking habit has had on my eggs. The speaker said smoking kills and ages eggs at a much faster pace - which may be a contributing factor to my low AMH (I was a VERY heavy smoker for years since I was 12) and the damage is impossible to reverse. Now that would have been handy to know at school...

So, an amazing weekend in all! Sorry for the essay, but hope the info is useful to others!

Wow pjs that is fascinating about smoking a I was quite a heavy smoker between 18 - 25...gave up properly about 5 years ago but that might be part of the issue for me with low egg reserve. Wish I could turn back time but there is no point beating ourselves up about what we want change.

Sounds like you learnt lots, and well done you for beating the drum on fragmentation. A friend has just had a second failed round so I have told her to ask about it!

Pyjamas wow thats a great insight. Sounds like you had a good weekend and would recommend? I think there’s one in March in Manchester. If I’m not pregnant by then I might attend. But I’m TOTALLY gonna get preggo Lego this cycle! RIGHT!!!?? 😇

Lemony ah the good old dildo cam, I think I’d rather have those now than holding a litre of water in my old lady bladder. I had to have both yesterday. Needed to pee forever. Honestly don’t know what she was doing up there. It’s probably my 5th scan which is freaking ironic since I’m childless. 😕 (had 4 with my first pregnancy and subsequent mmc) glad you didn’t find it uncomfortable, sometimes it can be if you’re a bit tender down there.**

Also, Kerry thanks for the tip about the honey in raspberry leaf tea.* Just have to remember not to put half a bottle in it tastes much better now.* 🤓

Congratulations to Otters, thrilled for you.

Have had a busy week, started new job on Monday and had fertility clinic appointment on Tuesday.
As a treat DH had got me tickets to a filmed screening of the play "Yerma" with Billie Piper as he knew it was an adaptation of a Spanish play I'd studied. So far very sweet of him. He didn't know the story line centres on an infertile woman driven to a terrible act. So I didn't go and stayed at home eating chocolate.

Anyway clinic appointment was disappointing, AMH even lower than this time last year and due to where I was in my cycle (the dreaded day 1) they decided not to start me this cycle as I will be on long protocol and it could have meant a possible clash with Christmas closure days for egg collection. I was supposed to be starting in September and now put back to December /January so pretty gutted really. I cried and raged at DH all evening when we got home. And then had to go in to my new job the next day and tell them that yes I'd had a lovely day off thanks! Oh well, I am a good liar 🤥 and my make up covered my puffy eyes.

Penguin have fingers crossed for you.

Pyjamas that info looks very interesting - and frustrating in equal measure.

I used to smoke too and wonder if that's why my AMH is so low or if it was going to happen anyway. I was more a "social smoker" but then I used to have a very active social life before I got old and boring.

Nice uterus Mouse!

Anyway will catch up with thread properly later, happy Monday folks.

Would definitely recommend going mouse if you can get to the Manchester one - although yes, you will be totally preggo by then so won't need to bother!!!

Yeah the smoking info knocked me for six a bit struggle and baguette. I was a very heavy smoker (nothing just social about it) so I'm pretty certain it contributed to my low AMH. Curses. No use crying over broken eggs though - let's just hope the ones I have aren't too scrambled!

pjs this is fab insight! Thanks!

I used to smoke 5 a day give or take for 15 years. My gp back then always says if I could keep it to that it wouldn’t do me any harm!! Why don’t they have pics of ovaries on the packs as well as sperm I wonder and now they are all blank!

Hugs baguette I can understand your frustration. How much has your amh dropped if you don’t mind me asking?

Thanks Plane, it's gone from 4.5 to 2 within the last year. I know it only takes one good egg yadda yadda but I was still unpleasantly surprised.
I've been taking supplements including Ubiquinol - not sure if it's made no difference or if it would have been even worse without it!

flash well done!!! That is an amazing weight loss!

I think it is RUDE, OUTRAGEOUS AND INSOLENT you are not given the scan results there and then!!!
You are in private appts!!

Wow pjs thank you so much for a great Show update!! Great insight & thanks for applying pressure where needed! You are amazeballs!!!
I was a smoker too but cannot remember if I had a low AMH (clearly it killed my memory as well as my eggs!). Nothing I can do about it now but I will educate my daughter/son on it!!!

jene oh that Lorca play is so sad... I am glad you realised in advance and had chocolate instead!
What a fcuker about the dates. CRGH was open throughout Crimbo...

So it seems when you do a FET you can almost decide the date!!!! So next scan willing (where they will check the lining) I will have mine in 2 weeks!!!! So exciting!!!

Omg kwick so so exciting!!!

baguette mine is 2.9 at first testing dint worry there is still time and options 🙌

lemony we had friends who posted themselves standing next to xmas tree with the bloody clear blue dangling off it saying pregnant! I mean Jesus Christ! (No pun intended!) 😂

We got our notes back from consultant today and he’s also reviewed my low amh and shitty follicle count and has suggested iui first before going straight to ivf-tbc our next appt in a week! I just want to get started now :)

Sorry for asking a stupid question, but what should AMH be in late twenties/early thirties?

Thanks Kwick. And I'm so so excited for you. One baby please! I'm crossing everything but my legs for you as I'm cd7 so got to start shagging. Right ovary this month but there's no harm in trying!

Pyjamas you sound like you really made the most of it and well done for drawing the right people's attention to the flaws in the system.

I smoked on and off for a couple of years at uni. I panicked during my ectopic that the smoking might have caused it but the docs said you have to smoke heavily for years for it to cause the kind of scarring that would cause an ectopic. It's so hard scrutinizing everything you've ever done. I hope none of you are blaming yourselves for past behaviour

Lemony I've currently got two friends about to pop, both in the next couple of weeks, and my Facebook feed is suddenly filled with pictures of their bumps. Both are also pregnant at the same time as their sisters! My SIL is 40 and getting tests results on Wednesday for egg count and whether she has started the menopause. I feel like the fertility gods are not smiling on my family!

Really pleased for your line progression otters keep us posted!

Sorry if I've missed anyone, am on my phone..

pj glad you enjoyed it. I could easily see how you could spend the whole weekend there. We only dipped our toe in but still found it very useful.

How are you putting the Mediterranean diet into practice with your DH? I think my DH needs to follow this! We think we are both severely lacking in omega3 etc

plane are you being treated by the NHS? If not not sure why they are recommending IUI first? Will it be medicated?

flash good luck with the chukka-chukka

Speaking of shows I had bought a ticket to go to the Stylist Show this weekend in Olympia but am now going to the Porchester Spa - my last hurrah before no more baths etc for a while. Would any of you lovely ladies want my ticket?

Very excited for you Kwick! Mostly for your FET but also for your spa day ;-)

Thanks Plane. Fingers crossed for the IUI.

Lemony I'm so fed up of pregnancy announcement tshirts for the big brother or sister, but I know back in the hopeful twat erase I was dreaming up ways to tell DH. Now I just show him a positive opk and nod in the direction of the bedroom!

Flash I go through phases of regretting past actions, but there's nothing I can do about it now. I mainly regret waiting to TTC due to other life issues that in hindsight seem unimportant. Oh well.
Anyway enough negativity, good luck with that right ovary!

Winging maybe try an omega 3 supplement, I just take own brand version from Wilko or Boots.

On a positive note I'm meeting a friend later to catch up and have some 🍷. Not too much but looking forward to catching up on all the gossip. And she won't baby bomb me (unless she's going to be a grandmother!)

Self funded kwick the letter was partially dictated before our last results were released and we discussed iui at that point. Defo will be discussing full options in a week :)

Enjoy the spa!

over normal amh is over 4. I would expect you to be quite a bit above if your amh is normal ☺️ it starts to decline after the age of 35 or so they say!

Pyjamas bloody marvellous performance at the fertility show - well done grilling the societies on dna fragmentation testing particularly. Didn’t realise Mediterranean diet was best for sperm and will be revisiting that. It sounds like your DH is really embracing the changes and you are both so committed and positive. You’ll be such great parents 👍🏼👍🏼😍

Ahh jene I’m so sorry that’s rubbish setbacks are so painful to deal with. Bless your DH and the play - I remember that play being on and thinking the subject matter sounded so raw and really resonated. Good decision to not go. Hope your new job is going well xx

Will catchup with rest later got acupuncture now!!

Lemony ugh bomb via pumpkin so unnecessary 🙄😣

Yaaaay plane and kwick that’s very exciting! 👏🏼

Kwick I thought about going to that but will be at center parcs 🏊🏼 You love that porchester!

LSFX flash

Hope you’re doing well skipper kath penguin alexia gee and everyone else xxxxx

How did harriet get on I hope you have a lovely bump by now xx

I'm still here @Jamon !! Just no real update currently and struggle to think of things to say! But I'm defo here cheering you all on

That’s such a good point about ovaries on the packs plane! Although if the idea of cancer didn’t scare me when I was 12/13 (when we all think we’re invincible), I doubt it would have made much difference to me! Great to see you’ve got a plan 😊

That is an unpleasant surprise jene, I’m sorry. It’s so out of our control as well. But, as long as you’re ovulating, that’s something to work with.

Glad you found my show update useful kwick! I’m writing that email to the regulator I met on Saturday - if they never get the patient’s view, nothing with change. I know, I’m such an idealist. Can’t believe you’re only 2 weeks away!!!

Normal AMH levels depend on age flash - my AMH is 5 which is low for my ripe old age of 36 and really shows with my poor response to IVF drugs.

It’s basically a lot of veg, fruit, nuts and fish (gross) winging with a load more antioxidant food to bring down his fragmentation (blueberries and pomegranate for example) - this is quite a good guide 😊

www.healthline.com/nutrition/mediterranean-diet-meal-plan#section7

Ah thanks jam - I hope we do get to be great parents one day! He’s in a much better mood and already feeling healthier with more energy. He’s really thrown himself into it now and am so proud of him. He’s even gone and replaced all his toiletries (shampoo, shaving cream etc) with paraben free alternatives!

Hi girls 🖐️ Sorry I've been AWOL for so long; I really needed the mental break. I have been stalking from time to time and rooting for you all of course! Even now I still don't feel like I have the energy to talk about ttc daily, it's just so draining/depressing isn't it?

Afm - we had an incredible holiday to Vancouver/Washington State in early Oct. Reunited with dh's family and it was just amazing! Unfortunately our penultimate day was a disaster for me! We had an expensive anniversary round-trip seaplane flight to Victoria + whale watching excursion booked. I had caught a bad cold the day before so on the bumpy seaplane flight over my ears couldn't equalise and my left eardrum exploded perforated and started bleeding. It was the worst pain I've ever felt and I've honestly never felt more panicked or claustrophobic either. I cried tears of relief once it had burst because I thought I was going to die/pass out if it didn't! Anyway, there was no time to think about my ear because as soon as we got off the plane we had to immediately get dressed in suit things and go whale watching on a speed boat - just imagine wind, waves, sneezing, hands full of sea soaked snotty tissues, freezing, seasick, makeup everywhere, eyes shut 90% of the time but trying to hold on for dear life so I didn't fall out or break my back! I somehow managed to sneak a peak at a few whales and some sealions though😂

The rest of the day was hell. My ear was so blocked up that I was crying my eyes out to DH over lunch saying I was too scared to fly back to Vancouver. In the end I saw an ENT specialist on the island (got ripped off but thankfully claimed back on insurance). He gave me a Dr note to get a refund for the seaplane as he said I could not fly, gave me a prescription and a list of things to get at the pharmacy to try and help me get back to England without doing too much further damage. We then had to get buses and a ferry back to Vancouver which took FOREVER! We were so desperate we accepted a lift on the final stretch from some dude who thankfully didn't murder us! Collapsed in our hotel room at 11.30pm. Managed to get home to England without too much further pain and just a little bleeding. First night back though I ended up in A&E in excruciating pain with an ear infection. I got antibiotics but they took 3-4 days to kick in. The pain was horrendous, I couldn't lie down/rest, the pain meds didn't touch it either. I was a mess. My parents came to get me in the end to look after me, but it coincided with the best EWCM I've ever had and I missed fertile week. Lol typical! I'm better now but still don't feel right and if the eardrum doesn't heal (by week 8) I'll need surgery

Still not pregnant and most likely won't be without IUI/IVF so I'm just trying to get on with life, lose more weight/be healthier and then go private when we're ready.

I'm so excited that so many of you are doing/starting IVF Best of luck Jam, Penguin, Kwick, Gee, Wing and everyone else I've forgotten (sorry!). Hope to see loads of BFPs over the next few months!!

Congrats Otters! Wishing you have a lovely, boring pregnancy

PJs so sorry about the late fragmentation diagnosis and the money and time that's been wasted! Ugh. I 100% get your frustration. Fx the new diet and wonderful things you're both doing bring you that well deserved bfp!

skipper so sorry to read your news hun. I hope now you've FINALLY been diagnosed they will do whatever it takes to get you your baby(ies)

Kerry I'm incredibly sorry for your heartbreaking loss Big hugs to you. I've got everything crossed this IUI will bring you your much deserved thb.

Flash glad you've started investigations 👍 Hope you're well!

Jam you asked about Harriet. She appears to be doing great and would be 18+ weeks now! I have stalked her from time to time on the immune/MK thread. Here's an update (attached).

Unfortunately our own Grad's thread is depressingly dead (hope we change that soon!). Almost everyone has had their babies and must be too busy/happy to be on mumsnet. Someone from the first wave is pregnant with #2 too!

NK thread* that should say.