Long term Secondary Infertility - anyone want to chat?

[closephine85]

Recently I've been feeling like I don't quite fit on any of the threads currently running. I know there is a support thread for ladies with secondary infertility already which I dip in and out of. However, now having watched many women come and go on that thread and seeing new ones come who haven't been trying for so long and are a lot more hopeful of a happy ending than I am, I just want a place to vent/moan/hate on this crap situation but to also be able to refer to the fact that I am a mother (obviously insensitive to do so on some of the other support threads, but where I actually feel more at home).

About me: I have a 5 year old son and have been ttc a second child for 3.5 years. 3 failed rounds of iui and a recent failed round of ivf/IMSI. We have 2 blasts in the freezer but I'm fairly convinced they aren't going to work either due to DH's high DNA fragmentation, I think they are probably chromasomally defunct. So if/when that doesn't work, we either admit defeat or move on to donor sperm. Both shitty options.

I feel defeated. Like I have failed as a mother. I can't give my son a sibling and even if I do, there will be at least 6.5 years between them. In the meantime he has to put up with me being always just a little bit miserable...

Anyone care to join me for a bitch and a moan?

I must have missed your earlier post lux and didn't realise you've just had IVF. Is your clinic here in the UK? Keeping everything crossed for you but I can understand the torture of the tww, it is bad enough without IVF so I can only imagine how worse it is for you after the procedure of IVF.

It's the hope that kills me each month and little by little eats away at my positivity, which I have only a sliver left of right now. Each month it becomes so hard to keep going to the point that I now feel like just giving up and accepting it just isn't meant to be

close hoping all goes well with your operation and sorry it's been a series of issues to get it sorted.

I also hadn't realised you had had your ET, lux. I know the IUI 2ww have been hard for me so can only imagine IVF being that x10 or 100. Hope it goes quickly and i hope it goes well! (Though appreciate your thinking about getting OTD over and done with, that's my modus operandi too)

How are you doing Lux? When will you do a test? Sorry to hear you are finding it hard. I know your pain. I just knew from a few days post transfer that it hadn't worked but made myself wait until 9dpt to test as I wanted to make sure there were no ifs, buts or maybes. If I'd tested too early I would have let myself hope regardless of negative results. I hope you get better news. Good luck

Thanks Scipio - I had been fine until now, but suddenly have the jitters about it. On New Years Eve DH announced that 2017 would be our year. So far it's been the exact opposite! I get the indignity of a hospital pregnancy test tomorrow morning too.

Thanks so much for all of the well wishes, everyone. I am feeling a bit steadier - I think the worst of the hormone storm passed. I am just now in that old familiar limbo, second-guessing my body, trying not to hope, hoping anyway, etc, etc. I still feel it hasn't worked, but I think I went through the grief of it preemptively. OTD is Monday, and I know I should test beforehand, as you did Close, just to take out some of the residual hope, but I can't face seeing the negative somehow. Can I ask you a question? How did you know that it hadn't worked? I am scouring my memory for how I felt when I had my BFP for my DD. I don't have any of the symptoms I had then - sore breasts, bloating, etc.

2017 still has a long way to go, too, Close. Will be thinking of you tomorrow. You are very brave.

Well, just got a confirmation of what I knew already. I did a test, in spite of thinking I'd wait, because I had the lightest of spotting, and when I did the pessary noticed it more. Negative. Just posted on my IVF month buddy group thread too. Don't know what to think or feel. How did I know so strongly, and what can I even trust any more? At least what I feel now isn't anywhere near as intense as earlier this week. Just numb, really.

It's so hard to keep believing that anything will ever work. The few days of hope I had just reminded me of how much colour and shade is missing on a daily basis. Fuck it. Onwards and upwards, I guess. I always wondered how people coped through multiple IVF cycles, and I guess this is how - you just don't really have a choice.

Thinking you Close. Hope the recovery goes well.

Oh Lux I am so so sorry. having been there all too recently myself I understand what you must be going through right now, it is just the absolute worst. You have my deepest sympathies. I too had the feeling of just knowing it hadn't worked (my womb felt empty if that makes any sense, I literally had no twinges, cramps, nothing. None of the pre AF feelings most people it seems to work for have and that I got when I was pregnant with my son). Please don't feel like your work stress has made it in any way your fault. I did quite a bit of research after we had such a stressful trip getting back from Athens and everyone said it wouldn't make a difference (the jury was out on whether the sickness bug I had at 3dpt perhaps could have and I now stupidly hold onto the shred of hope that it was that and not duff embryos that caused our failure). Look after yourself and do what you need to do to get through it. We went out for breakfast and a walk on the beach just to get out of the house.

Had my op yesterday, went ok, now just have to wait for biopsy results. Although they said things looked benign I'm totally going to worry until I get the results.

Lux - how are you?

I am full of pre AF RAGE this evening. Everything is just pissing me off!

Hi Close, thanks so much for your messages. It meant a lot to hear from you. I was totally unprepared for how utterly devastating the experience was. I actually feel it was comparable to my MMC, which seems totally out of proportion. I think because we've been feeling no hope for ages, and then to have the first glimpse of hope tantalise us and then the bad news. Just feel like a double failure, I guess. But, I also have to blame the hormones for exaggerating the whole process. It has been a roller coaster. I'll be fine for one day, then really wiped out by it the next. Insomnia, exhaustion, etc. Today's the first day where I feel like I'm facing the future again. But, man, yeah, it's been a time. My poor DH has been such a rock, but I hate seeing his hurt too.

So, deep breaths, trying to stay positive. Trying to be mindful that in the scheme of things we're still just out of the starting gates (compared to some on these pages, that is - obviously not to the superfertile).

Anger - I hear you on that. It's one of my first responses with grief/disappointment. For one whole night I felt super angry at our IVF clinic. Still do a bit - just the gaps in our care were quite surprising. Never saw the same doctor twice, nurse left mid-way through cycle and we were never informed, no one ever explained the protocol to us (ie the rationale for doing these drugs in particular), plus the big ol' no-check-till-five-days thing with the embryos. It just felt inconsistent and like there was no one really looking out for us. SO much of this process, especially when you're paying the big $$, which is certainly how it feels for us, seems like it would be better if they focused more on patient care and bedside manner.

I don't know - I'm trying to be positive, but I also think the only way I'm going to survive the next two rounds (we've limited ourselves to 3) is by deadening myself even more.

I talked to my parents last night. We're very close, but don't live in the same city, and I was crying while talking to them. Dad said how he hated seeing us go through this, and we had to try to avoid the pain and stress if possible. That it's not worth it, given what we have already. His take was that he wants another grandchild (obv) but doesn't want to see his child (me) in pain. At first I was affronted a bit - because obviously we can't choose how much grief or pain we feel. And he can't know this pain as he had three children and they never had any issues at all. But, I also began to see it from his perspective a little. The IVF WAS more painful than regular ongoing infertility. It's a decision we made, but maybe I can limit the impact it has on me. I really don't want this to damage our lives in an ongoing way. So, I'm not sure how I'm going to take this thinking into the next round, but I'm going to try.

Have you had the biopsy results yet? It sounds like things look good, but can understand you'll be tense till you hear. What a lot on your plate. to you too. xx

Hi Lux - I don't think it's silly to compare to your miscarriage at all. We invest so much in ivf, it gives the glimmer of hope amongst all the crap that is infertility and then it snatches it away again, just like that! it's hard to take. Glad to hear you have supportive parents who you can talk to about it all, it must be hard from your dad's point of view to watch his child going through it.

No results yet :( i remain in limbo...

Thanks Close. I really hope you have your results now. I sometimes think the medical profession has no clue how agonising such waits are.

I think the emotional stuff with the IVF failure has probably been compounded by some of the residual sadness of the miscarriages, which probably explains why it all hit so hard. I'm really lucky to have my parents to talk to; I don't know how people cope when it's just them and other half. Although my relationship with parents can vary too - don't want to imply it's all plain sailing and easy communication

Just a question for everyone here. Has anyone discussed the issue of infertility (in child-friendly terms, obv) with their DC? The day after we got results for IVF, my DD said (again) how much she wants a brother or sister. DH and I were oddly calm about it, and I just said that we do want to have another baby, but it doesn't always work when you want it to. She rebutted with some 5yo wisdom (apparently you CAN choose when you want a baby, according to her cousin), and we gently told her otherwise. It actually felt like a relief to talk about it with her. Our house has been hushed convos and tears post-bedtime recently, and I do very much wonder if she's picked up the vibes. If we did get pregnant we obviously wouldn't tell her until as late as possible, but it did strike me that perhaps we've underestimated her ability to grasp a little of what's happening. Any thoughts on this?

lux that's really interesting what you've written, I do wonder what other people say to their DCs. Personally my ds is very switched on and asks a lot about siblings- mainly because most of his bloody class have them. I've kept it simple, that we would like another baby but sometimes people aren't able to have as many babies as they want. Breaks my heart

close - I'm keeping fingers crossed for your results

lux so sorry to hear your news, it must have been devastating, look after yourself.

Sorry just trying to catch up with everyone

Our situation was probably a bit different to yours as we went away for treatment and our son came with us. We were totally honest with him throughout - he knew we were going to try and 'make' him a brother or sister, he knew I was having 'seeds' put in my tummy and this meant he knew to be gentle with me during the 2ww. We also told him from the start that it might not work and he took it all in his stride when it didn't. I think it would have been more confusing for him to find himself in a foreign country with me having tests etc and him not knowing what was going on. If we'd had our treatment at home like you then I'm genuinely not sure what we would have told him. I think it would have depended on the questions he'd asked, what he saw etc.

lux, I'm so so sorry about your result. It's such an unfair situation and the level of emotions involved definitely lead to an increased sense of hope as close says and somuch the more horrible when it is snatched away. I am glad your parents are also supportive. Mine vary too (they try to be supportive but have no idea about it...I dont think I'll ever be able to forget my dad saying I could go to Africa and adopt like Angelina Jolie back before our IUIs in 2008-ish) but my mum the other day said I was giving our DS a lovely childhood and that meant so much to me. But however lovely people are or aren't what you've gone through is horrible and must stir up old memories so all I can do is send and hope for better times to come.

Our DS has only asked about a brother or sister once. I mentioned the other day that one of his friends has just had a little sister (a previously good friend who I've distanced myself from since her pregnancy, sadly, though hoping I can rebuild a bit when I have the energy), and he just seemed a bit surprised and not that interested. His character is quite laid back and he tends to accept things as they are, like his dad, so I think this is just the way he is. We were in the hospital last week and he read a poster about the sexual health services and asked about it so we had a bit of a discussion about when people choose to have babies or not have babies (as I thought that was safer than gonorrhoea as a discussion point!) and he didn't really grasp it. He said you should wait to have babies till later so they had fully developed while I was talking about waiting until you had more money so we were talking at cross purposes! I do love this age for our conversations though.

As for me, I've still been ill (was at hospital for blood tests to see if I have glandular fever type thing to explain why I've been ill for seven weeks) so no progress made IVF-wise. In fact have moved backwards putting more weight on. However I only have four more weeks of work. I think I'll just have to accept a delay to the IVF process. Hopefully with a full year off there will still be enough time. However I am supposed to have a dummy ET too so that would presumably slow it down even more.

close I hope the results come asap and you can get some reassurance.

Thinking of you all, hope for sunnier days for all of us.

Scipio -sorry to hear you have been ill. Have your blood tests given you any answers yet? Sorry to hear you're having to delay your ivf too.

I got my results and they were all benign thank goodness! We decided to try and get on with things again so have had a meeting with the consultant here. We had been thinking about going for our FET in a couple of weeks, but actually he suggested we try a few more rounds of IUI to take advantage of dhs improved sperm count. IUI is free here, so it makes sense to give it a go. He said save the embryos for the future when we've had a few attempts at this first. I feel a bit better now that we have a plan and starting to try again. I think our plan will be 3 months of IUI, then back to Athens for FET and if still no joy then we will admit defeat and give donor sperm a try.

How is everyone else doing?

close that's good news all benign, what a relief for you, now you can concentrate on the IUI.
I'm not brilliant. Had a long cycle this time with multiple 'positive' results on clearblue tests that came up in a couple of minutes. Had virtually convinced myself that we had finally done it - I even used the digital yesterday that I bought years ago as I was that convinced. Although was very cautious and hadn't told anyone I was beginning to feel optimistic.... but the digital came back negative and this morning af turned up. I am devastated. I honestly cannot do this anymore. So I've booked for a private fertility assessment - they can fit me in in a couple of weeks. I need to be told that there's no hope as the hope is killing me. We wouldn't be doing IVF due to financial constraints so to be told it's the end of the road will be the best outcome for me.
I was doing CBT but even that has stopped because she said I just torture myself every month and without any definitive answers about my infertility I couldn't move forward. So appointment is booked.
I've had a birth announcement today and someone else actually brought a baby into the office today too. I keep crying. I know they're not my babies but I am so desperately sad and disappointed. And it's 3 years tomorrow since we started ttc our second. 3 whole years. Everyone else around me is just so bloody fertile and I'm not. Sorry everyone, just feeling so low today

MrsKitten - I'm so sorry it sounds like you've had a chemical? How cruel that you had the hope only to have it taken away. Glad to hear you have booked an appointment. Ivf isn't the be all and end all, you never know, they might be able to suggest other treatments or investigations that don't cost the earth. Good luck. When is it?

I had no less than FOUR baby bombs this weekend. I mean seriously!! Three of which were delivered with absolutely no sensitivity to me whatsoever considering they know my situation. People can be so self centred at times!

Thanks close - I know, it's so hard to get over that disappointment. Yes that's true - I hadn't really thought of it like that, that it might not necessarily mean IVF. It's on 26th June so only a couple of weeks to wait. Thank you.

4? Seriously? That's horrendous and to not be sensitive about it either is awful. It never ceases to amaze me how insensitive people can be. A friend who recently baby bombed me with her second had taken a little while to conceive so you would think she would have some thoughts about my feelings but not at all, constantly moaning about her sickness etc, I just look at her in total disbelief.

Hi everyone - how are you all doing?

2 babybombs today. One is a friend who has tried for a long time so I can't begrudge her, the second one is my friend's ex husband and his new girlfriend. I just cried when I heard (again!) it's not that I know them, but the fact this man has been married to my friend, divorced her, met another girl and now she's pregnant all in less time than we have been ttc number 2. It just makes me realise that this kind of timescale is normal to most people and this hell I'm stuck in of 3 years is not the normal.
The other sad thing I've realised is that everyone I know now who has ttc has got pregnant, every single person except me.

I'm so sad. I'm sick of feeling so sad. Dh was horrible, he's normally supportive but tonight said it wasn't normal for me to cry about someone I don't even know getting pregnant. I'm so sick of feeling like this. I'm angry too. Pissed off and sad.

Sorry MrsK - must be the evening for it as me and DH just had a big row too. I also find I compare myself to others, watching theirs lives moving forward. (This is going to be seriously outing if anyone I know reads this, but I don't care any more...) 3 years ago we visited our friends at their home with their new baby and I sat there, having already been trying almost a year and thought 'maybe it will be us next'. They have since sold the house to another pair of close friends, moved to a bigger home and had another baby and the other friends are now expecting their first. I'm going to have to go and sit in that same lounge, 3 years later, a whole other couple and another baby and still not have it happen for us. It's so sad and I almost feel like I won't be able to go through with it. But how would I explain? So I will go and cry in the car on the way home I guess

I've got my IUI tomorrow, DS took forever to go to sleep tonight and ended up falling asleep on me downstairs so DH just had to inject my trigger shot with me stood there, pants down and juggling a sleeping 5 year old. New low perhaps? One positive is that I didn't even feel the needle go in, ovitrelle is a dream after some of the mahoosive ivf needles!

close sorry to hear you've had a big row too, definitely the evening for it. I've barely spoken to dh tonight since, he honestly does not get it he says it's 'wearing him down' me being so upset at pregnancy announcements, unbelievable. I really feel for you in that situation with your friends, it is like everyone is just getting on with life. I agree it will be so hard to do but how do you explain it as nobody gets it at all. Crying in the car is the way I tend to deal with the situations too though.

Good luck for your IUI and well done for getting the injection done like that, I'm pleased for you it didn't hurt!

MrsK how are you? How is everyone else? It's gone a bit quiet on here!

I've just woken up from a dream where I'd just found out I was pregnant. There were tears of joy that we'd finally done it. Disbelief that it couldn't be true. Then I woke up and it's not true. Clearly. Bloody subconscious!

Hi close!

That's weird - I also had a dream about being pregnant- but mine was a big bump. It took me a short while when I woke up to realise it was a dream, it's so bloody cruel isn't it - our bodies play enough tricks on us without our minds joining in too.

How are you? How is everyone else?

I'm just plodding along, got my tests at the private clinic on Monday. Then the appt with the consultant on Thursday. Am so scared.

Other than that a couple of baby bombs, same old as usual. Am always waiting for the next one to hit me. Everyone I know who has ttc has fallen pregnant now, even a couple of relatively long termers so the new baby bombs are people who have just started trying now. It's so easy don't you know, decide to have a baby then get a positive pregnancy test, simple. If only.