Long term Secondary Infertility - anyone want to chat?

[closephine85]

Recently I've been feeling like I don't quite fit on any of the threads currently running. I know there is a support thread for ladies with secondary infertility already which I dip in and out of. However, now having watched many women come and go on that thread and seeing new ones come who haven't been trying for so long and are a lot more hopeful of a happy ending than I am, I just want a place to vent/moan/hate on this crap situation but to also be able to refer to the fact that I am a mother (obviously insensitive to do so on some of the other support threads, but where I actually feel more at home).

About me: I have a 5 year old son and have been ttc a second child for 3.5 years. 3 failed rounds of iui and a recent failed round of ivf/IMSI. We have 2 blasts in the freezer but I'm fairly convinced they aren't going to work either due to DH's high DNA fragmentation, I think they are probably chromasomally defunct. So if/when that doesn't work, we either admit defeat or move on to donor sperm. Both shitty options.

I feel defeated. Like I have failed as a mother. I can't give my son a sibling and even if I do, there will be at least 6.5 years between them. In the meantime he has to put up with me being always just a little bit miserable...

Anyone care to join me for a bitch and a moan?

[Jenbot78]

Hiya, interested in the long labour with intervention and secondary infertility info. This happened to me. I actually think that my infertility for DC 2 is to do with my age, my primary infertility (2x rounds of IVF for DD1) and other factors but always good to hear.
AFM I am really sad at the moment after FET failure. It has hit me really hard not least because I was initially pregnant but had a CP.
Not sure how much more of the grief I can take really.
Anyway not sure why I'm posting, just need some support from others and am reaching out.

[DizzyMerry11]

I’m so sorry to hear about your CP jenbot I can only imagine the heartache you must be going through right now and hope you have a lot of support around you.

Jenny infertility is just shit. I experienced it before my DD and have gone through it again. You’re extremely lucky you have two children but I do understand what it’s like to face a different reality to that we once envisioned. Like closephine says though the ladies on here have struggled for years to have another child so this may not be the right thread for you. Regardless, I hope you get the support/advice you’re looking for on these boards.

How is everyone else doing?

[Weedance]

Hi closephine85 and hobbes39 and all others i've not chatted with before. I'm sorry to read of your struggles but glad you have found this place to share. Its been a long time, perhaps a year? Anyway i'm still struggling on despite 2 recent failed ivf rounds. I can't belive i'm still doing this. I never realised i was so stubborn! My only DC turned 4 this year and after my last ivf attempt, where we made 5 embryos but none survived past day 3 i really found myself in bits, like suddenly bursting into tears in the street type bits. Clinic says maybe the stims were too high which might have effected egg quality so we should adjust the protocol 'next time', but at least we know we make embryos. My response was incredulity that it was their protocol in the first place, i'm not here to test theories at 6k a pop and why wasn't the impact of the drugs on egg quality over the age of 41 discussed beforehand? Ugh. My head hurts. And yet here i am, desperate and determined. And seeing stupid Chris Evans stupid smug face in the news gurning over his ivf twins does not help!!!! What are these people doing that we aren't? Is there some sort of secret elite celeb clinic somewhere that just magically makes ivf work if you're famous?? Rachel Weiss at 47! Really?? Good luck to them all but what is the secret?? I feel as we are missing a trick, surely there are some advancements in ART that are being used somewhere... or maybe its the desperation talking. I had the donor chat wiyh my clinuc too, who suggested it might be the next step now, seeing as we know we have an egg quality issue. Has anyone considered a donor sibling? I'm not necessarily averse to it, just never imagined we'd be considering it. for you all. I've missed this board x

[Hobbes39]

It's been a while... but posting as we are going through our last ditch attempt right now and I'm incredibly nervous about it as I know I'm going to be a mess if it doesn't work. @closephine85 @Weedance how are you guys?
My DS is now 5&1/2 - I'm almost 42 and I think our time is up after this round as I have to stop somewhere.

After our last miscarriage we had loads of tests - still no answers tho. No one can find anything wrong with us other than the fact I have some endometriosis. Last miscarriage was surgically managed so they were able to test it and found trisomy 16 - which is common supposedly and 'just bad luck'. Spoke to the head honcho of our clinic and he actually said to me that he suspected that I might be 'super-fertile' (oh the irony!) which basically means any old shit will implant into my womb, but sadly that's all we have had so far it seems. To be honest I'm not sure I believe him as while I have now been pregnant 4 times since having our DS we have been trying for 4 years so I'd have thought a superfertile womb would have had more than 1 a year!.

So with that possibility that it could just take one good embryo to finally get in there, we are now in the TWW of our last IVF round. This round wasn't as successful in numbers as last, I have no Frosties, so it's all or nothing now. I have 2 day 3 embryos on board, one 'top quality' one good - so I veer between jaded at having been here before, and hopeful. I still struggle every single day with my wee boy being and only. I still have other parents unknowingly saying things that make me feel so angry. I get so annoyed at people who have oodles of children and don't know how lucky they are. 😞 anyway - I'm 4dp3dt - so a week to wait (or if it's failed I may know sooner as I had bled before test date before). So fingers crossed for me... and I hope you guys have had more success so far that me! X

[Weedance]

hobbes so good to hear from you. Wow well what news! i guess it’s in the hands of fate now isn’t it. I really hope and wish It happens for you, I somehow feel that if one of us gets a result it gives hope to the rest of us. It would be wonderful if you fell pregnant now, after all you’ve been through. I’m rooting for you!
Well nothing changed for me really, considering a last ditch attempt but like you, at 42, I’m not holding out much hope. I’ve sort of considered donor eggs and am seriously considering adoption... I want another child so much, I’m now considering all options. I was baby bombed by a neighbour over the Xmas period, saw him in the street, he announced number 2 was due in April, all I could do was look at him with incredulity and blurt something incoherent, then escape as fast possible. Typical, they didn’t even want another one. But of course they are pregnant! Why wouldn’t they be! Everyone has two, even the ones who don’t fucking want two! I can’t bare seeing his smug face again, I’ll run next time.
Myself and DH are also going on hols with a friend and her two kids soon, she has an impossibly cute 2 yr old and another of 5. My dd is really looking forward as the kids are friends, and shamefully all I can think is how hard it might be for my DH who also really wants another... my own grief is hard enough to bear, let alone his... ive no idea why I signed us up for this... I didn’t really think it through. Now I’m sort of dreading something which should be fun... Ugh. It never gets easier does it?

[Hobbes39]

Hi @Weedance - so good to hear from you. As @closephine85 said in opening this thread, I feel like I don't really fit in in other threads so much... I came off mumsnet after my last miscarriage, as I just needed to stop thinking about it too much - today is actually when my due date would have been for that so it's been a while - but this thread really helped me before, so thank you x
Thanks for the encouragement - I agree I feel like if one of us finally gets there it will give me hope - I hope all of us do, but if not, I hope that we can somehow make peace with it... but I'm struggling so much to do that - I'm trying to get my head in the right place for that already - it's not negative thinking, it's just trying to prepare myself and cushion the blow. I think previous cycles have been hard to take when they've gone wrong, but this one.... it's the last go, so i feel so scared of what's on the other side of it doesn't work.
We actually went on holiday in October with a similar family - they have 2 kids - oldest is a good friend of our DS, youngest age 2. I was worried I'd find it really hard - and same as you, that my DH would too - but it was actually good. It helped that the 2 boys got on so well, so our DS had a fantastic time and we were actually able to really relax on hol as he was off playing. The other couple had to consider naps etc so in an odd way, it actually helped me to see the upside of having just one..? Don't get me wrong, there were still moments - especially when my DS was playing with their youngest - he was so sweet with her it just broke my heart; but overall it wasn't as bad as I had expected and it was actually a lovely holiday. Hope you can enjoy yours too. I think I've realised that we need to allow ourselves these moments of being bitter and angry, I just hope that they get fewer. X

[Weedance]

Thanks for the reassurance hobbes that actually really helps. I can’t help but look at the downside of these things, I think it’s a form of self preservation. My dd is also really considerate of the little one, it kills me.
I understand the silence on mumsnet sometimes. It’s important to take a breather from the intensity of all this, drink some wine, enjoy ourselves, feel normal. Self care is most important particularly emotionally. I was a mess after my last failed round, crying at the drop of a hat, I was really, really, sad and felt so lonely as even well meaning friends who do their best to be supportive don’t know what to say. Infertility is such a painful, personal experience, people really can’t fully understand unless they’ve been there. A great friend of mine who has been really supportive and has 2 boys, was sharing with me how sad she felt that she never had a daughter. I stayed silent, as I know she has a right to feel that way and share her feelings with a friend, but what could I say when I am so consumed with wanting another I couldn’t care less if it was a boy or a girl, I would just be so happy for either! We all have our cross to bear, but I do feel that some crosses are heavier than others!

Do you know, I’m also sick of strange men telling me I should have more children. Why do men think it’s their place to say this? Even in a supposedly modern, progressive western culture, strangers are telling me what they expect me to do with my body! I’ve recently had the comment in school, a restaurant and at soft play! All from men! WTF?

So, moaning aside, I’ve woken up feeling positive today, and I’m thinking I might do another go. Final try. My last try was high stim 375 iu of gonal-f for 6 eggs, no embryos survived beyond day 3 so didn’t even get to transfer. My doc says the high stim might’ve affected egg quality so recommended 300iu this time. But that doesn’t sound particularly lower.... am thinking of switching clinics... do you mind me asking who you are with? Do you rate them? X

[Hobbes39]

Yes! The people TELLING me to have more kids! ARG! We are very lucky in that we have a big house and the number of comments I get from people about being a 'big house for 3' is ridiculous. The fact that no one even stops to think that maybe,yes filling another one or two of the bedrooms was our plan, but some plans don't work out - drives me mad!
I don't know where in the country you are - We are at EFREC (edinburgh is the nearest clinic to me) - they are on the whole lovely, but restricted in what they will / won't do. In some ways it's good as it takes away the choices for me - they don't really do add ons that aren't proven to work as they are an NHS clinic that you can self fund at rather than a 'private' clinic if that makes sense? I'm actually slightly in love with one of the nurses - she's been there for all the shit and I do genuinely feel like she is almost as desperate as me for this to work! So on the whole I do rate it. Where have you done cycles before?
In terms of stims - my first cycle they had me of 150 gonal f as I had a good AMH for my age they thought I'd respond well - I didn't (5 eggs, 2 fertilised, not great quality, chemical preg)
So next time they upped it to 225 - got 7 eggs, 5 fertilised, 2 average day 3 embryos, 1 frozen. All bfn
3rd time 300 - got 9 eggs, 8 fert, 2 'nice' embryos put back day 3, 2 frozen - resulting in 2 mmcs
This round was the same as last time (300 gonal f) as we 'did so well' - but the extra few months clearly had their effect on quantity as we only got 5 again. I actually stimmed for longer than before (2 extra days) as they took longer to grow and my Estrogen was lower. The good news was that 4/5 fertilised -m& 3/5 made it to day 3... so while quantity was as low as the first round, quality must have been better.
Anyway, if you have the energy to go through it again, one last time, trying a lower dose for longer might work - who knows. 300 is the highest my clinic give you I believe - so it's still def high.
It's so hard - it's just such a difficult to choice to make. I was so tearful about doing this round that I know that I can't go through it all again. I only agreed with my DH to do it on the condition that it def was our last go with my eggs. I'm not totally ruling out donor eggs, but find it so hard to get head around that I don't know if I could do it - it's one of those decisions that impact on the future forever, and I find that a headf*ck!
In terms of adoption, I had considered that but I believe that at our age we'd be unlikely to get a baby/ toddler so I'm scared or the likely baggage an older child would likely have and how that would impact on our DS... I don't know if that's true tho? X

[lat1085]

Hi ladies,

I check back on here occasionally, hoping for good news from you all. I’m so sorry that you are still in the awful situation that is secondary infertility. It took us four years, seven ivf transfers and three early losses before we were finally successful - our precious dd2 was five months old yesterday. In the end, we threw everything at our last cycle. We saw a recurrent miscarriage specialist in London (he specialises in immune issues and diagnosed me with high NK cells - I was on prednisolone, blood thinners, baby aspirin and intralipids, alongside the usual ivf meds). We also had our one and only embryo from our last fresh cycle genetically tested (we used a clinic abroad, so this far financially viable whereas in the UK I’m not sure it would have been for us), and used PICSI (an upgrade on ICSI), whereas before we just did standard ivf. I also took ubiquinol for a few months before that cycle, as it’s meant to help with quality. I’m not sure which part of it made the difference, if any (maybe dd2 would have ‘stuck’ anyway), but I just thought I’d share what we did differently just in case it helps either of you, or anyone else reading the thread. Hobbes, I’m wishing you so much luck for test day. I really hope it’s a positive result for you.

Thinking of you both. Laura x

[DizzyMerry]

I’m still around and check on here for updates from time to time.

Hobbles I have everything crossed for you that this cycle is the one. I can only imagine how nerve wrecking the wait must be for you.

Weedance good luck if you do decide to go for a final try at IVF.

Congratulations lat. I’m so pleased for you.

As for me, well, I’ve been debating for a few months whether or not I should post on her with my update as I know how bittersweet somebody else’s news can be, even on the internet. However, today I thought I’d share the news on here that I’m currently pregnant with DC#2. It’s been a long and hard road with varying emotions and lots of grief and tears. Not out the other end obviously until DC#2 arrives safely and it all still seems so unreal.

I will still say how shit infertility is and how it changes your whole outlook and perspective. I will continue to lurk on here and I really sincerely hope things work out for you all.

[Hobbes39]

Hi @DizzyMerry & @lat1085 - congratulations to you both - it's good to hear it can happen in the end!
AFM - I did a stupid thing (which I often do) and I just POAS with, albeit a concentrated pee, my 3rd pee of the day... I'm only 6dp3dt - but I caved having told myself this morning I wouldn't as it's too early....
BUT I can see a v v v faint line! It's so faint that i doubt it would photograph, but it's def there.
I think I caved to test early as I have had chemicals so want to know if it's at least got that far before i bleed. It's stupid I know, but I just needed to know. Anyway - tentatively and v nervously hoping this one might stick. I'll test again Sunday if period hasn't shown and just 🤞🤞 x

[Hobbes39]

Morning - just wanted to update @Weedance - I'm hoping our last ditch attempt will be the one...🤞🤞
Having been here before I'm scared to get too excited but it's a pretty good line for 8dp3dt...

[Weedance]

OMG hobbes huge (but whispered!) congrats! What wonderful news for you! Yes you have been here before but do allow yourself a quiet pat on the back. Fingers crossed. I hope you are looking after yourself and try not to stress about it! See, it CAN happen, even when it feels like the odds are stacked. You must be thrilled xxx

[Hobbes39]

Thank you @Weedance - I am - but I'm so scared it will go wrong again... I don't think I will relax until/ if we finally have a baby in our arms.
I am delighted, and it def helps it's a good strong line rather than just a squinter, So I am hopeful about his time.
I'm actually slightly cross that all the shit we've been through has taken away the joy I should be feeling... I just don't want to take anything for granted yet. Oh to be like I was back 6 years ago when I was pregnant with my DS and nervous, but nothing like this! X

[lat1085]

Congratulations! That’s a great line for 8dp3dt!
I didn’t enjoy pregnancy the second time round at all - I was so unbelievably anxious, all day every day, about everything (I was referred to a counsellor which helped a little), and didn’t assume we’d get a baby at the end until I was literally in labour. Infertility, ivf and loss took away all the magic and excitement of pregnancy - I think that’s unavoidable unfortunately.

Best of luck to you and your family xx

[twinkledag]

@Hobbes39 - checking in to see how you are doing? Hoping your BFP has stuck 

[closephine85]

Hi everyone, sorry I’ve turned into a bit of a lurker these days. Congratulations Hobbes! That’s lovely news, hope all is going well so far!

Congratulations to you too Lat! So glad everything worked out in the end.

Nothing has changed over here sadly, a few more disastrous rounds of IVF and just about to start another. Sorry I don’t post much any more, I think I’ve more or less run out of anything to say. I’ve not given up yet, but I am very very bored of it all.

[Hobbes39]

Hi all - thanks for the encouragement!
@twinkledag - so far it's ok - time is going so so slowly though! I'm only 4w 4d now so still very much in the danger zone, so don't feel I can relax at all yet. 
Had a worry the night before beta (at 11dp3dt) as I had a small bleed, but thankfully it was brief and think I must have just irritated my cervix with the progesterone pessaries or maybe it was further implantation, I dont know.
But good news was it was a good strong beta number (391) and I've had no further bleeding since so I'm hopeful that all is well so far...🤞
I'd like to go to sleep and wake up in 2 and a bit weeks for my 7 week scan...! Each time I've been pregnant since my DS our first scan has not been positive - so desperate to get there, but dreading it at the same time. Thanks for understanding @lat1085 - did it get any easier at all as you got closer to due date? I think I'm also terrified that something will be wrong due to my age (will be 42 in March), so I expect that even if we do get past the next hurdle of 7 week scan, I will still be worried about it all.
@closephine85 - nice to hear from you - I'm so sorry that you have been having such a hard time. It's so shit - I will keep everything crossed for your upcoming round - are you doing anything different this time? X

[lat1085]

I’m glad things are going well for you so far Hobbes, it’s really lovely news. Unfortunately I didn’t get any better - if anything I got worse the nearer it got. But hopefully after the really worrying initial few weeks, you’ll feel a lot better and won’t be a crazy person for the whole time like I was! Wishing you lots of luck, and a happy and healthy few months (and beyond!). Laura x

[twinkledag]

🤞 @Hobbes39

[closephine85]

Hi everyone, I know the thread has gone quiet and this will likely be the last update I post on it, but I wanted to update as when I was trawling the internet for secondary infertility stories I’d always wonder what the outcome was if a poster disappeared.

As of today I am 20 weeks pregnant with a baby girl! We had our scan yesterday and all is looking perfect. This is from our 5th round, 3 of which were pretty much back to back from November onwards and it’s taken almost 6 years to get to this point. After soldiering on with IVF and becoming pretty tough and resilient over the last couple of years, it turns out I’ve coped appallingly with pregnancy and my anxiety has been through the roof expecting it to end around every corner and with every scan. HOWEVER, I am here, FINALLY and have all fingers, toes (and legs!) crossed for the next 20 weeks and beyond.

So I just wanted to pop back and say thank you to you all as there have been times where I’ve felt far more at home and supported talking to ‘strangers on the internet’ than I have to those in real life

[lat1085]

Closephine I am delighted for you! This news has made my morning! Congratulations to you and your family. I’ve sent you an inbox 💗 x