Long term Secondary Infertility - anyone want to chat?

[closephine85]

Recently I've been feeling like I don't quite fit on any of the threads currently running. I know there is a support thread for ladies with secondary infertility already which I dip in and out of. However, now having watched many women come and go on that thread and seeing new ones come who haven't been trying for so long and are a lot more hopeful of a happy ending than I am, I just want a place to vent/moan/hate on this crap situation but to also be able to refer to the fact that I am a mother (obviously insensitive to do so on some of the other support threads, but where I actually feel more at home).

About me: I have a 5 year old son and have been ttc a second child for 3.5 years. 3 failed rounds of iui and a recent failed round of ivf/IMSI. We have 2 blasts in the freezer but I'm fairly convinced they aren't going to work either due to DH's high DNA fragmentation, I think they are probably chromasomally defunct. So if/when that doesn't work, we either admit defeat or move on to donor sperm. Both shitty options.

I feel defeated. Like I have failed as a mother. I can't give my son a sibling and even if I do, there will be at least 6.5 years between them. In the meantime he has to put up with me being always just a little bit miserable...

Anyone care to join me for a bitch and a moan?

[user1490948702]

Should have previewed! Knicker watch (knockers are always massive!), and 'if there's ever the slightest chance'.

[Hula2]

Oh mrskittenpie what this bloody situation does to us! I am the same, although have given up on opks and temping because after all this time i ve got pretty good at predicating ov from just ewcm but poor dh still gets his 'orders' every month. Just can t shake off the 'what if' this month is the elusive golden egg and we miss it because we don t at least try. Just worked out a horrifying statistic: total months ttc (including for ds) - 60 which equals approx 300 functional shags....

[mrskittenpie]

user - knockerwatch has made me smile!
Yes it definitely seems to be bump season. That is very wise of your sister and I think it does help when you can get less upset less often.
Glad it's not just us re the lack of romance! It's just hard to switch off isn't it? I think that's the hard part of it for me. Please don't worry, you haven't made things worse by talking about 3rd children, I've got to a stage now where virtually every pregnancy announcement I was dreading has been made (and the babies have been born now), there's just one announcement left now, this one is a family one though and will be a instant pregnancy after the wedding one so am building myself up for it. 3rd baby announcements which will start soon no doubt can't hurt me anymore than I have been hurt now. Sorry for the moan

[DizzyMerry11]

Hula sorry you're in this situation too. It's just so relentless but like you each month I also think 'what if' even though deep down I know it's just not going to happen.

User that's great advice from your sister and it must be good to be able to talk to someone from the outside about ttc.

Kitten it really is so difficult to get away from it all. We should really have an off button!!

I can also relate to the lack of romance as ttc is just such a chore. It almost feels like a milatary operation to have sex!

Well cd1 for me again

[closephine85]

Hi ladies

Sorry I've been a bit quiet (after starting the thread!) I've been fretting a bit about my upcoming op so the fertility stuff has taken a bit of a back seat. Still waiting to hear when the op will be so there's not much I can do ivf wise until then.

I agree that the feelings come and go a bit. Sometimes it's all I can think about and others I just feel a bit numb to it all. I get quite weary of the insensitivity of others and wish there was a way of creating a bit more awareness.

I think it's actually my DH that is more into timing dtd than I am! Also we worked out whilst having ivf that his second sample on one day is better/lower DNA fragmentation so therefore now makes us do it TWICE on most fertile days I think I worked out long ago that our chances of a natural conception are about 0.001% so to be honest, can't really be bothered trying!

Sorry for lack of personal responses and relatively disjointed post. Am knackered as work from home so have been attempting to cram in a proper working day in school hols by getting up super early/going to bed late - more mum guilt to add the the lack of sibling - that he's not having enough fun in the hols!

[mrskittenpie]

dizzy - sorry you're on cd1, it really is awful. Just look after yourself.

Yes it's is definitely a military operation, I can't imagine doing it just for fun anymore after nearly 3 years. We've managed one last time tonight as still no ovulation confirmed this month but I'm on cd21 now and we're tired out. With my rubbish body I'll be on cd1 by the weekend I reckon. Then it all begins again.

Have you thought anymore about having your day 3 and 21 tests? I still haven't booked the consultation with the fertility clinic - stupid really as I need to get it over and done with.

I did a clearblue trial a couple of years ago and they have contacted me to say would I be interested in testing another ovulation product - how humiliating - I bet everyone else on their list is now either ttc their next one or no longer needed to ttc at all and here's me, still plodding on

[mrskittenpie]

Hi close , sorry you haven't got your op date yet, hopefully you'll get it soon.

Twice on fertile days! We do do that the odd day but it really is knackering. I've so had enough now.

That does sound tiring too, I know the guilt feeling well though - I feel like I'm always working and missing ds's school stuff - impossible to juggle sometimes

[mrskittenpie]

How is everyone doing?

[closephine85]

Op is on wednesday! Relieved it's so soon but scared at the same time as will then have to wait for some biopsy results. Just need to get this dealt with and then hope to be back on track for FET.

How is everyone else doing?

[mrskittenpie]

That's good op is so quick closephine, hope it all goes well and then you can concentrate on the next stage.
I'm not brilliant. I had the CBT assessment last week and cried all the way through. I'm sick of feeling so angry, sad, useless, disappointed all the time. Apparently it will give me a way of coping with other families, announcements etc but the way I'm feeling at the moment it will have be a miracle worker. I didn't even ovulate this month! My ovusense has not detected ovulation at all so that's a whole new low I'm feeling, not only does it not happen when my body remotely tries to do what it should but now my body can't even be bothered anymore. I'm just so sick of all this. Sorry for the me post

[MrsFurphy]

It's a relief to know I'm not the only one feeling like this! Relieved to find this thread.

TTC number 2 almost 4 years now. I don't even know what's wrong with me any more....

It started as endometriosis, resulting in crap tubes and being told IVF was our only option, so we had a cycle in March last year which ended in an early mc.

Then, miraculously, I fell pregnant naturally in June but lost my baby in October (mmc at 16 weeks, baby died after 12 week scan )

So here I am, back to where I started. I know most people are thinking 'at least you can get pregnant' but it took me 3 years to get there and to be honest I think it was a result of all the IVF drugs.

We've been trying again since around January but so far nothing, and my cycles have suddenly shortened to 23 days for some reason.

I'm just so lost

to everyone...

[MrsFurphy]

Oh and my DD is 7

She's stopped asking for a sibling but I find the weekends exhausting trying to keep her occupied and finding playmates. I'm dreading the easter holidays as it just means 2 weeks of no play dates after school

[mrskittenpie]

Hi mrsfurphy - sorry you're in this position too and so sorry to hear about what you've been through. That must have been heartbreaking for you
I know exactly what you mean about the holidays - it breaks my heart to see ds playing by himself. I took him to a park yesterday and he was reluctant to go on the higher things, he saw his friend (friend naturally has a younger sibling) and suddenly he was off playing with them and doing all the stuff he hadn't wanted to do before. It's things like that that really get me down. I literally can't cope with the thought he's going through his entire childhood like this and I completely blame myself

[closephine85]

MrsKitten - I hate that too. We went to a family fun thing at the weekend just the three of us but he didn't want to do any of the activities and I'm sure it was because it was just him on his own

mrsfurphy welcome to the thread but so sorry about your miscarriage

[Hula2]

mrsfurphy so sorry to hear of your struggles, how horribly cruel to get a natural miracle and get past the 12 wk mark for it all to be just taken away. Must have been so crushing. I m glad you ve found the thread and can feel a little less alone.

Sorry to hear you re struggling mrskittenpie. I keep wondering if i should try counselling too but will it really help ? i feel like talking about it won t change the facts so whats the point. I don t know, i m crap at talking about things so maybe thats why i being sceptical as i ve heard some people say it really helps.....

I too feel under constant pressure (probably almost entirely from myself) to organise playdates or alternatively be a substitute playmate for ds. He d be at least 6 if any baby comes along now but its just a different dynamic with two than one child even if they will be too far apart to be playmates.

close good luck with the op, hope it all goes well and lets you get on with the next stage soon, the limbo of waiting for fertilty treatment, for whatever reason, is just torture and i hope it doesn t last too long for you.

Afm i m not doing well either. Have been feeling utterly despondent about the whole situation (3rd anniversary of mc is looming this weekend and seems to have derailed me again) plus dh and i are going through a rough patch that doesn t seem to be getting better....

Hope somebody gets a break on here soon. Thinking of you all.

[Luxnuova]

Hi there, I hope you don't mind if I join. I'm not sure if I qualify as long-term, but we've been trying for over two years, with one MC and one MMC (both really early in the piece) and now a long stretch without even a whiff of a BFP. We've given ourselves another month TTC naturally, and then we're starting our first round of IVF, as I'm 38 and have just discovered that I have a mildly reduced ovarian reserve. My daughter is 5, and has wanted a sibling since forever, and I am kicking myself for not starting trying earlier. I feel like there's all sorts of things weighing against conception at the moment - largely job stress and a sort of low-level anxiety that is mostly related to the infertility. I'm finding it very hard to feel positive about our chances with IVF. I seem to be ovulating really early at present, and my mood can change so fast that I feel like I'm getting whiplash.

Eesh. It's hard. I often feel like infertility is like being inside a locked room - you can see out, but you're somehow separate from other people's lives. I'm not the best poster on these boards - I tend to lurk mostly - but I just related to so many of the comments here. I'm so sorry we're all here, and my heart goes out to each of you. Mrsfurphy, I'm so sorry for your loss in October. Best of luck for your operation, closephine

[closephine85]

Op done. The nurse on the ward recognised me from my lap last year. Made me sad to think a whole 14 months have passed since then and still no further forward! Not sure I will be fit in time to go for FET in may. They said to allow 6 weeks to recover and I really don't want to blow our chances by being impatient, hard as that is.

Hula, I'm sorry to hear about your rough patch with DH. It's such a strain being in a constant cycle of crap isn't it! We have been through similarly bad times where all we seem to do is snipe at each other.

Lux - what you say about looking out of a locked room really resonates. It's like this weird kind of limbo where we're in the Mum club but we haven't got our full 'golf standard access all areas' membership card yet!

[closephine85]

Gold not golf!

[Hula2]

Good to hear your op went well Close. Can you do your FET in june if may is out ? Wishing you a speedy recovering.

Welcome Luxnuova - so sorry for your losses. I have been with dh for years and often kick myself for not having started earlier but then i think if i had I wouldn t have ds and thats unthinkable so try not to let myself have regrets over that. Hope you get your natural bfp this month.

[flossyfloss]

Hi everyone

I just came to start a post of my own because I'm feeling down and saw this one

Cycle 18 and still nothing, I do have children from a previous relationship so feel as though I'm not really allowed to be upset but we desperately want our own child and I'm nearly 36 it just feels like it's never going to happen. Currently on 2nd cycle of femara/letrozole.

We got pregnant once last September and it was a chemical by 4 weeks 2 days

I'm sure I've had a couple of chemicals since then as well. It just feels like it will never happen and we can't even afford Ivf

[Luxnuova]

Thanks for the welcome, guys. And hi there, flossyfloss - I really hope the femara does the trick.

I confess I'm not holding out much hope for the natural BFP this month. At our last fertility apt, the consultant said that our chances currently for succeeding are about 1%. Still, I have a 'drug teach' for the first round of IVF on Wednesday, so at least it feels like we're moving ahead in some fashion.

Thanks for that, Hula - oddly I don't regret having DD when we did (though it was on the later side, as I was 31). What I do regret (depending on how much I'm beating myself up that day) is not starting trying for a second earlier. I put off trying because of a significant career thing. It's the only time I've ever 'played god' with fertility, sort of thought I could shape it to suit myself. And now I bloody well kick myself for the hubris of those thoughts. On grim days I feel like I've jinxed our chances for a family. Objectively, I put career over family for that period, and it has come back to bite me now.

I hope the relationship stuff is going okay. I have found secondary infertility has been really tough on my marriage. In the past I have literally been thinking - why are we planning IVF when we should be getting a divorce? It's often the hormones talking, plus the stress. Sometimes it's impossible to step back and see the good in what we have, see that we ultimately do love and like each other, etc. I think it makes it harder when men and women seem to process these things in quite different ways, also.

Hope Easter weekend is okay for everyone. We've got lots of extended family stuff happening, which always feels a little fraught. We're the 'little family' in amidst a large bunch of three-sibling sets on my DH's side. Yes, that denied 'gold-standard mum pass' is so accurate, close. I always feel like an impostor, like I've failed at this family business. Sorry for massive post - it's nice to vent.

[Placeanditspatrons]

Hi I hope it's ok for me to post.

I have ds (7 - nearly 8) who was conceived first month of trying, easy peasy.

We then had several years of trying for dc2 during which we discovered dh had practically no viable sperm. Morphology was less than 1% and motility was low as well. We had two rounds of icsi before moving to embryo adoption in Spain.
All failed, I didn't get the slightest hint of a positive test.
We were going to go back to Spain again for another donor round when my period was late. Yes, I was naturally pregnant. This resulted in my dd - now 16 months.

However why I'm posting is this. Firstly no one should feel bad about having an only child. I am an only child. I loved it. Ds was actually just as happy as an only child as he is now. He used to ask for a sibling. But he also asks for a puppy and I say no to that without feeling guilty. I know it isn't the same thing exactly but honestly no one should be feeling bad about not 'giving' their dc a sibling.
My gap of six and a half years is big and dd mainly annoys ds. It also hasn't 'fixed' me - I pursued this second pregnancy and it consumed me for about three years. Now she's here I'm extremely anxious all the time that something will happen to her. I feel like she shouldn't be here and as though she isn't permanent. I'm so grateful for her but this has been a very difficult 16 months. Very very difficult. The infertility and the fertility treatment have stamped themselves on me forever it seems.
What I mean is - and I hope this doesn't come across badly because i couldn't love dd more or be more grateful for her - that we were a happy family before, it's just that I couldn't see it because I was so consumed by the desire for a second child and also now she's here and it probably looks to the outside world as though everything is 'perfect' it's actually been the toughest time of my life. I still feel inexplicably jealous when people just get pregnant at the drop of a hat and then get excited about it. I didn't buy anything for dd until she was here. I still won't buy her the next clothes size up etc in case something happens to her. It feels like it's jinxing it.
I'm jealous of the simplicity and the excitement and the total assurance that everything will work out. I have friends who announced pregnancies at 4 weeks, literally once they got a positive test. I didn't say anything until I was 20 weeks and even then it was reluctant.

Anyway. Sorry I've rambled on a bit. I hope everyone finds peace whatever happens further up the road.

[user1490948702]

Happy Easter everyone! I hope that you are having good BH weekends.

Place, that was a really interesting post and I appreciated it a lot. I I hope things get easier and less anxious with your daughter soon. I am planning on IVF soon and yet feel so ambivalent, as when I had my son via I spent the whole pregnancy in fear and worry (some reason for this but mostly just the result of infertility and knowing how many things could go wrong). I left announcing till last possible moment too! I really think sometimes it is not the second children but the 'simplicity and excitement' that I'm jealous of, as you put well.

Better go and eat all the chocolate before we start our healthy lifestyle on Tuesday!

[LostInTheTriangle]

Place and others, just wanted to say thanks for sharing your stories.

We've been trying to conceive our second for two and a half years. I've had three mmc between 8-11 weeks and a failed FET (my first child was conceived with IVF, miscarriages were natural conceptions).

Place, what really resonated with me was your comments about being a happy family and not realising it due to the quest for number 2. You're so right. After being stuck in a rut and afraid to do anything, we have booked a couple of holidays this year and I'm trying to enjoy life more and live in the present.

During the pregnancies that I miscarried, I was so tired and sick and not 100% with it for my daughter and it upsets me that we don't even have a sibling to show for it.

Spending time with my single female friends also brings it home that I am so bloody lucky to have one. For no fault of their own they haven't met the right person and now in their mid forties, they're not likely to have biological children.

It's so hard and a rollercoaster of emotions.

Sending strength to you all.

[closephine85]

Hi all

Place - thanks for posting. Can get where you're coming from and I imagine the pain of watching others conceive so easily never fully goes away. Sorry to hear it has been tough for you.

Having a bit of a down moment this evening. My skin has been awful since finishing ivf, I've comfort eaten myself to half a stone heavier than where I feel good about myself and I CANT HAVE ANY MORE BABIES. I'm just so fucking tired of it. I wish someone could tell me if I'm chasing a dream that is just never going to happen. Hope is such a bitch!