Long term Secondary Infertility - anyone want to chat?

[closephine85]

Recently I've been feeling like I don't quite fit on any of the threads currently running. I know there is a support thread for ladies with secondary infertility already which I dip in and out of. However, now having watched many women come and go on that thread and seeing new ones come who haven't been trying for so long and are a lot more hopeful of a happy ending than I am, I just want a place to vent/moan/hate on this crap situation but to also be able to refer to the fact that I am a mother (obviously insensitive to do so on some of the other support threads, but where I actually feel more at home).

About me: I have a 5 year old son and have been ttc a second child for 3.5 years. 3 failed rounds of iui and a recent failed round of ivf/IMSI. We have 2 blasts in the freezer but I'm fairly convinced they aren't going to work either due to DH's high DNA fragmentation, I think they are probably chromasomally defunct. So if/when that doesn't work, we either admit defeat or move on to donor sperm. Both shitty options.

I feel defeated. Like I have failed as a mother. I can't give my son a sibling and even if I do, there will be at least 6.5 years between them. In the meantime he has to put up with me being always just a little bit miserable...

Anyone care to join me for a bitch and a moan?

closephine - yes I agree a tshirt would be a good idea, I'm not sure what would be in it but if it helped at all I'm all for it.
I had a baby bomb yesterday and am ashamed to say I cried. It was a friend who was dreading telling me and to be fair she has been ttc number 2 a while herself, but she was literally the only person in real life who I could talk to about this shitty situation. So I feel really alone now. I honestly cannot believe that everyone I know who ttc has got pregnant - every single person except me. I cannot believe it.
In your situation I'd go for June. I agree if it failed, and it certainly might not, the wedding would be hard but there are babies everywhere in day to day life, smug families who have no idea of this hell.

Hello everyone

I have recently rejoined mumsnet after a few years away and have stumbled across this thread in an attempt to find a "home"

I have a 4 year old who will be 5 in a few weeks. We started TTC our 2nd when he was 2.

Last year we had tests to check all the usual sources of infertility, all came up clear so we are unexplained. I almost wanted there to be something wrong that could be fixed.

I'm pretty sure in the time we have been TTC I have conceived twice but lost both pregnancies before I had even tested (also had two miscarriages on route to conceiving our first)

What I'm really struggling with now is just the fact that it has been going on so long now that I am losing hope it will ever happen. I lost it this week when my boss (who I am really close too) went off on maternity leave with her 2nd. She struggled too for no medical reason to get pregnant. I feel like the only person who understood is going to be disinterested once her baby is here. My friends with two or three children cannot understand and say well meaning things that hurt. I hate hearing them complain about how hard life is with more children and how I have it easy with one.

I love my son so much that I fear that I spoil him because he is our only one but I also sometimes worry that a sibling would disrupt our really happy family life.

I'm just so mixed up and conflicted and I can't see an end to it anytime soon.

I've read all your stories with such sadness in my heart for you all.

Hello all. Hope you don't mind me joining? I really feel like I fit nowhere as I have secondary infertility (dd is almost 8, from a previous relationship. Now I have PCOS) and my partner now has primary infertility (extremely low sperm count). We threw out contraception in April 2015 and I've only had 3 periods since then, all clomid induced. So naturally speaking, we are pretty much screwed for a bfp. We want to try ivf but it's so expensive and I just can't help but feel like it will fail. Which I know is crazily negative, but I just feel that way. Even so, we are hoping to try next year. Which also puts us in another box of a torturous wait! Most people are either currently doing ivf or have it coming up in the next few months, so we don't fit there either.
I have been reasonably lucky in that none of my close friends have dropped baby bombs, except one who lives far enough away for it not to matter. I am expecting another one from her any time soon though, and I know I won't be anywhere near as happy for her as I was last time (pre-ttc). Also I have a friend who is going to start ttc at the end of this year and it sucks that it's almost certain that she will get a bfp before us, even though there will be almost 3 years between us starting to ttc.
I'm really sorry to all who have been through failed rounds or miscarried, it just seems even worse after long term ttc.
Oh, and I also despise the "at least you have one" comment. How dare we want a second when we have one! Nobody ever says to people who conceive naturally a second time "oh, but you already have one, what made you bother with a second?"

Oh and closephine at the risk of sounding stalkery, I saw a post from you on here quite a while ago about mild ivf. Did you ever do it? I'm interested in it because of the cost and as I have pcos I am more likely to overstimulate but it seems that nobody on the interweb has actually even gone through with it

Hello to you all, and I am so sorry you're all having hard time. I have read through this thread several times now and have been reduced to tears by posts that so articulately describe exactly how I also feel. I could never express this sometimes, and I've found it so therapeutic to at last, be able to pin poin these feelings.

Intro: aged 34, one DS who is 6.5y. X2 MMC and and a few CP. I have very low AMH. Really struggling with all this. Today AF showed her face and each time she does any positivity, or resilience I try to build as a buffer, drains aways.

I'm awaiting the results of blood tests on the NHS which come back mid July so yet more months of weeing on OPK, DDT, TWWing for it all to be pointless.

I saw other posters had navigated baby bombs - I'm finding myself avoiding situations where I think one may be dropped. I'm losing friends as a result which adds to the loneliness.

I think my post has turned to a pity party, but I wanted to drop in and say hello and pray for each one of you to get a break and have the babies you deserve.

Hello ladies,
This is a long thread and I wants yet able to read all posts however I did read some. I would like to join in and have a place to vent as well.

I'm 34 and DH 36. We got married 10 years ago and since I knew before marriage that I had PCOS is didn't waste time and went straight to see a gynecologist who prescribed me Clomid and metformin. I used to ovulate each and every cycle yet no pregnancy was achieved. Doctor suggested HSG and it showed patent tubes and normal shape and size of uterus. Moved to IUI and did 7 rounds of IUI and no success at all.
Moved to an infertility specialist who recommended hystroscopy and ovarian drilling. Findings were stage 1 endometriosis which should cause and difficulty with conception and yet scar tissues were removed.
Moved to 1st ICSI with PGD, 2 beautiful blastocyst returned.. BFN
Did my 2nd round of ICSI alone. Again 2 beautiful blastocyst transferred and 1 blastocyst destroyed because the clinic refused to return more than 2 for my age and they don't freeze 1 embryo. BFN.

Did many blood tests for thrombophilia, NKC anti-phospholipids,, and so much more.. all within normal. Many tests for plevic inflammatory disease and bacterial infections. All -ve. Husbands SA all normal. Karyotyping for both me and my husband normal.

Few months later, a miracle, spontaneous pregnancy which resulted in my only Child who is 5 now. Unfortunately he was born with a serious inherited blood disease and his best option would be a bone marrow transplant only from a matched unaffected sibling donor. So we were advised to do ICS with PGD, PGS and HLA matching.

3rd round of ICSI however with PGD, PGS and HLA matching, 1 embryo was unaffected but not an HLA match. We chose to return.. BFP but ended up a chemical pregnancy.

Had endometrium scratching

4th round of ICSI, PGD, PGS and HLA matching. 2 unaffected and HLA matched blastocyst and 1 unaffected but not matched blastocyst. I insisted on transferring them all..... BFN

Heart broken and devastated could not even describe how I felt and still feel. I feel like I let down my child.. I feel like there must be something wrong with my body .

Went for a hystroscopy and endometrium scratching again. Nothing was observed and all looked normal. AMH is High due to PCOS.

5th round of ICSI but no PGD, doctor chose to treat me of NKC even though I tested negative, just to cover everything. Was given intralipids, heparin injectables, baby aspirin, steroids, progesterone in the form of pills, pessaries and shots. Got ovarian hyperstimulation yet insisted on day 5 embryo transfer. 2 transfered and 6 frozen. BFN

6th round was a FET and a stimulated cycle to help me ovulate so my ovaries naturally produce estrogen. 2 follicules seen and a trigger shot was given. I had timed intercourse and had 3 blastocysts service the thawing and all 3 transfered. Same protocol as the previous cycle. Had was seemd like Implantation Bleeding 3dp5dt. Was very optimistic. Unfortunately another BFN

I just wish a doctor can point out what is the problem or what is causing the repeated failures . I would either come to terms that it will never work out for me or I would work on treating the cause of repeated implantation failure.

Currently I'm 7dpIUI.. starting to feel pessimistic about this cycle so early this time. I'm unable to get the strength to keep trying and keep going. Financially we're drained. I can probable afford another ICSI cycle but I feel what's the use when there is no guarantee. I might as well use that money for my son's school fees or have a nice summer holiday.

Sorry I just notice that I have many typo errors in my previous post. Tried to go back and edit it but didn't know how!

Hi everyone. I'm hoping I can join this thread, I really don't belong anywhere, but this is the best fit. I've been lurking on mn for almost a year, but this is my first post.

I have a 9 yr old dd, had 3 years of infertility to get her, then when she was 3 we started trying for second. Five years later, 3 early miscarriages, every alternative treatment I could find, failed iui, giving up on it completely, then as one last try we finally did a round of IVF. I had severe hyperstimulation from the IVF, but found out I was pregnant while in hospital being treated for it.

8 months of hyperemesis followed, my son was born in March. He passed away 20 hours later. I feel so cheated. I know I'm grieving, but I also want to try and get pregnant again as soon as I'm able to. I've just turned 39 so time really is running out.

I'm scared of facing infertility again, of getting consumed by the hoping/disappointment monthly cycle, but I'm also scared of actually getting pregnant again in case I lose another baby. I'm emotionally a mess, don't really know what I want, I think I'm just hoping for somewhere to share this horrible journey with others.

Just wanted to add, I'm so sorry for all you ladies on this thread. Infertility at any stage is hideous, and only someone who has gone through it can ever really understand. I've read all the posts, and my heart has gone out to everyone. 💐

Missfire , I'm so sorry for your loss of your son. You must be going through an unimaginable time. I can relate to the not knowing what you want even though I was so lucky that my one pregnancy resulted in my 6.5 yr old. I had lots of bleeding and was so aware of the possibilities, and I worry about putting myself through ivf and then it actually being worse if something goes wrong later, than not being pregnant at all. Plus I love my very SN niece but I am aware of how things can be more difficult - my sister wouldn't wish her not to have been born but she would wish not to have had 'a' severely SN child who'll need 24 hr care forever, by the looks of it (though we hope for more). With infertility all the nightmare scenarios are so much more in the foreground because you are pursuing having a child so consciously and actively. I'm sorry you are going through one of those nightmares

Welcome new ladies and so so sorry for the heartbreaking times you have all been through. It so cruel and unfair that some people have to endure such painful journeys just to have a family of their own. It s a testament to your strength that even in the face of this adversity you still carry on trying whilst also being someone's very special mummy. I hope finding a place where you can share and be understood goes a little way easing the pain.

Much of what many of you say reasonates very deeply. I almost feel now i m playing a game of russian roulette esp as i ve just turned 42, have low amh and approach 4 yrs of ttc no. 2 with just a miscarriage and chemical to show for months of immune drugs, acupunc, supplements, superovulation and a failed ivf.

How big is the risk getting of serious heartbreak if i actually did fall pregnant but it went horribly wrong in some way ? How damaging could that be to my nearly 6yo ds and my marriage ? Should i just count my blessings and give up ?

But somehow i can t ! No amount of logic, stats or reasoning can beat down this unending drive to grow, nurture and love another baby and to give ds the unique relationship of a sibling and all the related family (nieces nephews inlaws etc) that may come from that. The best i can do is stop myself sinking more money into ivf (helped by only getting one egg on max stims) altho still i take supplements, consider endometrial biopsies and sending my af to greece for hidden infection tests in case something is the magic bullet.

The torturous thing about infertility is that little bit of hope that until your final af waves goodbye then there s always the bloody hope of a miracle. So you can t just get on a grieve and then recover, its a constant, exhausting, endless road of hope and disappointment with a good dose of guilt that you re somehow letting your current child down and since you d go to hell and back for your child that makes you more determined to not just give up.....

Hi all

Been busy on here in the few days I've been off mumsnet!

MissFire I am so so sorry for the loss of your little boy. There really are no words. You must have such conflicting feelings between wanting to try again and fear of it happening again and that combined with sodding infertility on top is just awful. Feel free to use this thread to vent away anything you need to

WhoLoves - I looked into natural/mild stimulation ivf in the end but decided against it and I'm glad I did. You say your husbands a sperm count is low? Does he have any morphology issues? I'm just asking, because we were told to expect 1/3 less of the eggs retrieved to fertilise than that of a couple with no sperm/morphology issues. I do not have pcos but I do have a high AMH (32) so was at risk of overstimulation and was absolutely fine. They retrieved 13 eggs, 9 of which fertilised and 4 made it to blast. The fact that we only had 4 blasts from 13 eggs makes me wonder how many mild cycles we would have had to do to get the same amount. I have also read a few bad reviews about Create (who pioneer the natural cycle approach) so I would steer clear of them! Sorry I realise this sounds quite against the idea. I'm not in theory, I am just pleased that in my circumstances that I decided against it and bit the bullet. You would be monitored extra carefully for over stimulation with pcos as well.

MrsKitten - I'm the same as you. All the real life friends I've made along the way through support groups etc have had success now and I'm left wondering when the dice is going to roll a six for me!

Sorry I'm on my phone so it's hard to look back and respond to everyone personally.

Found out yesterday I do have to have another op. It's pretty much down to the surgeons own error so when he said I was going to have to wait another 6-8 weeks I locked up a bit of a fuss. He has now marked it as urgent so hoping it will be sooner than that :( if not, it may write off our chances of an FET this side of the summer as Serum close for August to put it mildly... I'm a little fed up!

Sorry that should say kicked up not locked up!

Oh Close, how bloody annoying. Too right about kicking up, i d keep on their case until you get a date. You shouldn t have the whole inconvience of another op and missing getting you fet in before summer.

Just catching up on the thread. Just wanted to say how very very sorry I am Missfire. I can't even begin to imagine the pain of your loss, and the difficulty of facing this struggle again now.

and hula2 I just want to say your stamina and endurance is amazing. I know what you mean about the ambivalence of not being able to grieve because infertility never really seems conclusive. The hope begins to feel like an enemy in a way.

Damn, Close, you must be so frustrated to get that news. Definitely definitely push them to schedule it earlier. Do they know the situation you're in with the FET transfer? Apply maximum guilt if necessary.

I've been emailing with an old friend recently, as there aren't many people I want to talk about this stuff with IRL and I knew she had been through fertility issues. I only realised full extent of this since being in touch. She tried to get pregnant for 3 years with her first. She'd had fibroids and cysts removed in early 20s, so had to do IVM instead of IVF. Anyway, she'd basically given up hope but went to see a naturopath and osteopath others had recommended. Naturopath put her on a highly restrictive diet, and osteo did whatever osteos do, and then basically picked the month she'd get pregnant - exactly 3 months after starting the treatment. And she was. I'm pretty skeptical of most alternative medicine stuff, as my DH works in public health and is always ramming home the need for randomised controlled trials, etc (after I was all fired up after reading It Starts with the Egg he strenuously went through all the research ) - and I know this sounds very woo and anecdotal. But she then went on to get pregnant again a second time, six months after trying, again with the same treatment. I don't know what I think about it. Part of me is thinking that if this current round of IVF fails I might try to get an appointment with these people, even though in another city from me. But other half is sort of . It's strange this combo of extreme doubt that anything will work, but also the fact that I'll basically try anything...

Lux - pardon my ignorance but what is IVM? I'm also similar about the woo treatments - curious but at the same time! It took us 7 months to conceive our son and after month 6 my DH bought me 'The Baby Making Bible' is was basically all about Chinese medicine, I pretty much just took the 'eat lots of nuts' advice and was pregnant within the month. Fairly sure it was just a coincidence but now I've been reminded of the book perhaps I need to revisit it! I also, whilst hating, the 'just relax' advice, sometimes worry that I am somehow stopping myself from getting pregnant through just being stressed and worried about it

I am going to ring the hospital again if I don't hear in a couple of days. I will be pretty pissed if we can't go back for the FET before the close for their summer break.

Close - it's something called In vitro maturation, where they harvest the eggs before they're matured, and let them grow in the lab. She had to use it because of what she went through with the cysts and fibroids, apparently - it would have been dangerous to stimulate the ovaries.

Yeah, I'm pretty rational in most things, but I surprise myself with what I'll consider in this process. Am curious to find that book you mention...and cue me upping the nut consumption! I also hear you on the stress factor. I am continuously second-guessing myself on that. But it's also incredibly hard to stop being stressed about this process. I'm just in recovery mode from my egg collection, and I have to give a talk at work a few days after probable (hopeful) transfer, and I feel like the stress I'm bound to feel for the talk (about which I get very nervous) will jeopardise my chances.

Definitely keep on at the hospital. Be the squeaky wheel. Could you get your DH to ring, or someone else to ring as well, on your behalf?

Hi, it's 'user...' from earlier on in the thread. Just saying hi and I hope everyone is doing okay.

Hi scipio - how are you doing?

How is everyone?

I'm not brilliant, doing my CBT - doesn't change the fact I can't have another baby. Feeling a bit meh about it to be honest.

Stuck in the usual horror of pregnancy announcements and newborns being thrust into my arms whilst all the time having to endure 'I'm sooooo tired' by all these second time mum's. Inside I'm screaming you don't know how lucky you are, I'd love to be having no sleep.

Also have af from hell, stupid strangers asking why ds doesn't have any siblings and I'm just so incredibly fed up of this sadness and anger. People are so thoughtless.

Hi Scipio, love the name!

Hi mrsk, sorry you're having such a hard time 💐 I have pmt from hell at the moment too so complete sympathy!

People can be really crap with situations outside their own experiences, and completely lacking in empathy. It surprises me how much sometimes. I recently had a woman who knows a lot of what I went through with infertility, knows my baby died 2 months ago, and who seems to produce her own huge brood of children with no effort at all, suggest I adopt the next one as it would be easier! I was speechless.

Am feeling really low at the moment, pmt making it almost unbearable. I've spoken to my fertility clinic who have said I can do a FET as soon as I feel ready. I'm now trying to get my health back as much as possible, taking a ton of supplements again, trying to get back into exercise (again, pmt making that really hard), and will go for transfer in September. I have 4 blastocysts, so have decided I'm prepared to do those four transfers, but if they don't work, I'm going to stop trying. I have to have a definite end date for my own sanity.

💐🍷🍰 for everyone

I've just realised there were two of us as 'usernumber'. I'm the one with a 6.5 yr old DS (via IUI).

mrskittenpie sorry to hear about the rounds of announcements and thoughtlessness from mums and strangers alike. It is staggering that people are so insensitive. I have heard some shocking things from my sister of what people have said to her re: my DN's disability and i realised it wasn't just infertility they were thoughtless idiots about. That made me feel better for a bit but overall has just lowered my opinion of the human race in general. One thing I've started to do is not apologise and act self-deprecating about our onechild family status, which I used to do a bit. I'd say 'oh, it's hard enough with just one, gosh I don't know how you do it' etc (like Miranda being funny single woman with the married people asking about her relationship status in SATC if anyone else remembers!). Not any more! I'm sure it is hard work to have more DC but it is hard work, as you say, which we would love to have. Sorry about CBT not being much help. I had it years ago for unrelated things and didn't get on with it at all. When I had depression and PND over the last few years I had counselling which was just talking and I found that a lot more helpful, as it allowed me to come to a lot of helpful realisations on my own. But a baby would obviously be more helpful.

MissFire ugh pmt is the worst. And another prize for stupidest woman with that adoption comment. When I was going through primary infertility a woman at work said, when I was talking about my cats, 'you should adopt or have a child', as if it were as easy as that (as if either were easy!). to be fair she wasn't aware of my situation so your person has taken things to a whole new level of idiocy. I'm t glad you have a plan for September. I need to get healthier so I will try to follow your example there! I'm so sorry for all the horrible feelings you and others on this board are going through.

As for me, work has been insane and I've put on loads of weight and got less healthy over the last three months. My thyroid is an issue at the best of times so this is not good. Things should calm down by the end of next week, and I've actually resigned from my job to spend a year on IVF and sorting out our lives (hopefully planning a short term move abroad), that's my end point (and two or three max rounds). But at the moment I am nowhere near in a state to do IVF in July as was originally hoped. I know that after next week things will be more manageable through and I stop work at end of June. It's been a hard decision to leave so I've had a lot of emotions about that and feeling cross that I can't manage treatment and working (my health goes to pot every term), worry about career prospects etc., though I also know I'm very lucky to be able to take some time off.

Sorry for rambling on. Hoping for nicer weekends for us all.

Ugh I posted a long message on here the other day but just realised it's not worked for some reason!!

Lux - how are you doing? Have you had your transfer yet? Hope all is well.

Lat - how are you doing after your latest round? Hope you're ok.

MrsFire - I'm sorry you're having such a hard time. You are right about people lacking in empathy if they haven't been through it. They would be the first to cry for sympathy if it happened to them too!!

MrsKitten - I'm sorry to hear you're having a tough time too - I also tried cbt a few years back but they stuck me on a computerised course that was totally General to anyone with any kind of mentail health problem and it didn't help one bit. I kind of gave up after that and lost faith in the system so didn't bother asking for any more help!

Does anyone else feel completely invisible at times? I swear because I have one child, most other people just can't see the problem. The next person who says 'at least you have DS' is going to get a mouthful. If someone lost a child but had another, no one would say 'well at least you still have one'. I know it's not the same at all, but because for us, that child has never existed, there is no loss that can be seen by others, we just have to get over it and move on? Although having said that, I've seen some massively insensitive comments made towards people who have actually lost children, so in summary, I guess there's just a large proportion of insensitive idiots in this world and I'm not sure what my point actually is.

Second op to rectify mess made of first one is now at the end of this week. Still don't think June is really going to be viable for FET though, so we have to decide whether to spend a fortune on flights and accommodation during first week of summer hols, or whether to wait until September. I guess at least if we go in the first week of the summer holidays then no one will miss us/think it's odd that we have gone away.

Wishing you luck with your op at the end of this week close. I'm sorry the timing looks rubbish for the FET. Definitely agree there are vast numbers of idiots insensitive to all sorts of things! The ease with which secondary infertility is dismissed is absolutely infuriating. I knew a woman who had one child (with difficulty) and had icsi for her second and another woman we worked with said on a night out that woman one shouldn't be doing ivf etc as she already had one. I pointed out to her that she herself hadn't decided not to have a second child since 'I already have one'. That was the last time I socialised with her, maybe not a conscious choice but no great loss!

I posted a long message on here too the other day but I think there was problems with the mobile site.

sorry so many of us are still struggling it's just a never ending vicious cycle.

Mrskitten and Mrsfire people are just so thoughtless and insensitive. How is it even appropriate to ask such questions but somehow everyone thinks they can freely ask and expect an answer

Scipio well done you for just going for it with your resignation. The pressure is just not worth it and I hope the time off does you the world of good.

Close hope the second op is successful. Hope you can sort out the timings for your FET.

Nobody understands secondary infertility. Some will brush it off saying at least you've got the one and others will stop at nothing to ask why you haven't/having anymore. It really is infuriating.

I'm in my tww again but not holding out much hope. I have acupuncture tomorrow and although I'm not expecting any miracles fertility wise, my stress levels are through the roof and I just need to relax so hoping it at least helps with that.

Hi all

Close, I'm so glad you've been able to schedule your op for this week. That's really good news. Don't worry about what people think and go with what works best for you both.

Scipio - another to say well done making the decision to resign. I can't tell you how close I have been to that this week. Even to just tell someone at work would feel like a relief to this awful pressure.

I am currently in the 2ww for our first round of IVF. The process was easier than I had expected. We got one good quality 5-day blasto, but nothing to freeze. What I didn't expect was the torture of this wait. I've become rather blase about my ability to get through 2ww, but was not prepared for the pain of doing it with IVF. At present, 4 days post transfer, I am convinced it has failed. I also feel that I have failed myself with the amount of work stress I'm facing. Deadlines and marking means I've been working each evening, having a weep, going to bed, getting up early and repeat.

I've been periodically feeling just utter meaningless anger, as we were talking about on this thread before. Irrational anger at people for their thoughtlessness and obliviousness. I hate seeing myself like that.

I feel in awe of the women on this thread who have kept going tirelessly while facing the pain of this experience. Every single day is an act of bravery. I am trying to see the silver lining at present, but it's damned hard. I can't wait for the OTD to be over, so that at least we can shore up our resources, focus on moving ahead, focus on the good. It's the awful limbo between hope and despair that's the worst.