Multiple failures, a place to chat

[Zippybear]

Anyone else out there with multiple failures wondering what to do next? We've just had our fourth embryo transfer fail. Issues on both sides. In the last year I've had two surgeries, dh has had one and we are still no further forward. We haven't had a holiday that wasn't time off for ivf since 2015. We feel battered and bruised and stuck on a hellish infertility rollercoaster that we can't get off unless we want to accept childlessness we have another nhs cycle but I'm not sure I can cope with it (or if there is any point). I don't know whether to give up, think of donor, adoption or just accept our lot. Anyone else wondering the same?

Blondeshavemorefun - I agree, two friends of my friend cycled in Poland and Czech, and paid about 2 500 Euros

Cool story, bro.

I completely agree this 'never give up' attitude is insane. Yeah great idea, spend all your money, wreck your marriage and mental health and then (if you're lucky) that will be the time in your life that you bring a new baby into the world?! That was something that really worried me in my last cycle, I felt so broken by recurrent ivf, the idea of going from that to a potentially difficult pregnancy and then sleepless new born baby just seemed beyond what I could deal with. I appreciate the pregnancy/ baby stages might be ok but if you are starting from your lowest point... am sure I read somewhere pnd is much higher in mothers post ivf. Of course that's if you actually succeed. If your don't you will have spent all your money and had years of unhappiness for absolutely nothing. Brilliant.

I feel like there needs to be a voice out there saying it's ok not to do ivf, the chance of it working is pretty low anyway. And for anyone that has tried well done for being so brave! especially if you have done it more than once. But now please be kind to yourself.

I sound like a total loon

Definitely don't sound like a loon zippy. I think there does need to be more support around helping people make decisions more generally.

I also feel that there should be more on offer than just ivf. I wasted years going through all the hoops to get to ivf, and going through cycles to get pregnant, only to miscarry three times. Only after all that heartache do I finally get the tests that tell me what the problem is. Just seems fucked up.

I agree. The "don't give up hope" seems to come from people whk have no idea what it's like to spend a decade with your life on hold.

I was at the gynae-oncology clinic for my follow up appointment yesterday (because obvs what I had needed earlier in the year was a gynaecological cancer scare) and actually the consultant didn't really talk at all about the cancer issue - as he said right off that (as we knew) all the tests were clear. He actually spent most of the appointment asking how we were doing emotionally, when we told him the update that we'd since finished treatment and now had to accept that we couldn't have children. This is an NHS gynaecology clinic, not a fertility clinic, but he went way way over our allotted time, just to basically give us a therapy session about how we were coping with it all.

He said that particularly in women's health, Drs could be slaves to protocol, and essentially moving from one intervention to the next and the next, when actually the protocol didn't take into account how the patient feels emotionally, and whether it's the right thing for them personally.

He said that we had been through an enormous amount both physically and emotionally, and that if we explored surrogacy as an option, we shouldn't let any professionals try to move us along a conveyor belt - that we had to decide what felt right for us as a couple. And they just because we had the embryos didn't mean that surrogacy was the next logical solution - that we should feel able to say that actually no, we don't feel that path is one we want to pursue, that saying no was as valid a choice as any, and that the only opinions that mattered were ours as a couple

DH and I both came out quite weepy tbh (and not just because the nurse said the magic words 'you are now discharged'). The fact that he took the time to speak to us as humans (when he didn't have to), and said that just because medical intervention was an option, didn't mean you necessarily should take that path, meant a huge amount

Because without that, you just feel guilty for saying 'no'. That saying 'enough' means you're a quitter and if you really wanted it enough you'd sacrifice everything to get there

Except that you can sacrifice everything you have and are, every shred of yourself and your identity and relationship, and still don't get there

Because sometimes you just have to be able to say 'enough'

Thanks bigger. Despite having having fairly low odds of success, no one has ever, ever discussed our chances of success with us. I really find that shocking!
tiger it seems insane that that they don't jump to investigating miscarriage after one loss in infertility clinics (or should it be before even trying when a bfp is so precious?!)
purple life in hold describes it so well. I guess if you've never been in the situation it's hard to imagine the ongoing stress of it.
banana I'm so glad to hear what your Dr said. Especially this 'He said that particularly in women's health, Drs could be slaves to protocol, and essentially moving from one intervention to the next and the next, when actually the protocol didn't take into account how the patient feels emotionally, and whether it's the right thing for them personally'
A good mantra for modern science is 'just because you can doesn't mean you should'. I spend hours during sleepless nights worrying about what we should do next.. and I can't decide... then I think I mustn't want it enough as I can't decide (and threads like that recent one don't help with this sort of feeling!). This morning I asked myself to think what I really want. And I realised what I really wanted was to naturally conceive when we first started trying and to have three happy healthy children by now. It's a million miles away from our current options. No wonder I can't decide. And just because you can try whatever doesn't mean you should.

You definitely don't sound like a loon zippy. I totally agree with you. I also think your mantra of "just because you can doesn't mean you should". The never give up advice is ridiculous and unrealistic. The statement is usually made by fertile people who have no idea what multiple failures or putting your life on hold for years and years entails.

I think people who haven't been in the situation of potentially facing involuntary childlessness cannot appreciate the mental, physical and emotional stress of all of this, or the pressure infertility and fertility treatment puts on your life/career/relationships etc. This is probably one of the reasons they advise us to never give up. This advice then makes you feel like even more of a failure as not only can your body not do what it's "meant" to do, but you feel like you somehow haven't tried enough and that you're a bit weak for feeling that you can't carry on, plus you always have the what if..... niggle in the back of your mind e.g. What if cycle 6/12/375 of IVF is the successful one and I just need to have one more go. But banana is right sometimes you do have to be able to say "enough".

** I also think your mantra of "just because you can doesn't mean you should"
is a good one.

That's exactly it earl grey, that middle of the night worry that if we would just try one more cycle that maybe that would be the one... but living your life permanently on hold is a kind of stress you can't appreciate until you've been there

Zippy, there is nothing that is too loony for this thread, you could know that by now! (well, except for randomly posting about a friend of friend)

Banana - good news about being discharged, you must be so relieved. And how lovely to hear from a medical professional that tells it straight, in a empathetic way. I think once you are on the fertility train everyone involved in your care is just concentrating on achieving pregnancy and not about what's best for you necessarily (although so many of the people who treated me were so lovely - nurses in particular). Even the counsellor we saw was, at the end of the day, an employee of the clinic so you do wonder about impartiality.

Can I join? I've followed this thread for quite some time now and only just joined Mumsnet. I have never come across anything which has been more relatable. My heart breaks for you all.

My background:

• PCOS, TTC for 4 years (solidly, only had a 3 month break while we waited for my ovarian drilling op)
• just failed 2nd IVF cycle and now have no other free 'go's' left on the NHS but are lucky that we can self fund at a push. Willing to do so obviously

I just posted on AIBU and had some nice replies but I am at rock bottom. My strength has completely dissolved and I cannot draw on any other emotional resource. I don't know what I can hope to achieve from this post, you all have your problems (many worse than mine) but I guess what I'm trying to say is that, I hear ya.

tipsnothacks welcome to the club no one wants to be in. Of course you can join us here. Sorry you're going through a crap time at the moment. You're not alone so feel free to rant away on here, we get it.

banana hope you're ok.

Thank you so much, EarlGreyT

I hear you bigger. I think it's worse because it is the actions of fellow infertiles. You'd think there would be some insight.

Hi tipsnothacks, sorry to hear about your failed IVFs. I found it so bloody hard to pick myself up after failed treatment. The hormone crash is also miserable. Be kind to yourself and enjoy some guilt free glasses of wine.

I hear you too bigger and agree with tiger that you'd think there would be some insight. Even if they personally weren't that bothered about other people's babies in the waiting room (before having their own) you'd think they might have some empathy and understanding that many infertiles find it really upsetting and difficult.

Bless you all, my heart goes out to you. Sometimes I wonder how I am still standing sometimes, I'm sure you all do too.

Totally feel the same about the waiting room business. At one of my ivf appts, a lady in the waiting room was accompanied by another woman with a baby of im guessing about 3 weeks old. Torture.