FET Sept/Oct

[Lolly2803]

Hi ladies,
I am due to start an FET in Sept/Oct and wondered if anyone else was too?! Had my first cycle of IVF in August but due to fluid in my uterus and thin lining had to freeze everything. I seem to always have fluid mid cycle, including natural cycles. Very worried that it will always be a problem and will never get to use my embryos. Having a hysteroscopy the week after next to check incase anything in there but doc suspects not. Would be great to have a few buddies! xxx

lolly amazing news about the lining and ET being good to go - hurrah!! Bloody fantastic news, so so thrilled for you

Again a break sounds really restorative. Can definitely recommend something non infertility related as a distraction - courses or a p/t job sound like a great idea. My new job has been quite stressful this week but actually that’s been a rather welcome distraction, as if I’m stressing about work I’ve got less headspace to stress about my rubbish uterus

csa how are you doing?

Bear wow it’s all stations go, liftoff again!!

With you ladies on the hibernation. All my friends have kids and I don’t really fit into their lives as the lone barren - their social lives revolve around NCT friends or play dates with their kids’ friends from nursery or preschool, so they’re part of a club of which I can’t become a member. And when I do meet up with them, I just have no chat any more. I have nothing to say - all I’ve done this year is be a professional infertile, and I’m just so weary of it all. All for battening down the hatches and hunkering down inside where it’s warm and toasty and can forget about the outside world!

I’ve been researching the different endometrial biopsies available and making enquiries- I suspect they won’t be able to be done while the IUD is in, but I want to gather information to take to my consultant to discuss. I’m going for bloods a week tomorrow to check my oestrodial (i.e. am I absorbing the oestrogen from the patches and cycloprogynova) and then see him for a scan the following week

Ladies on FF and another forum I’m on have been unbelievably helpful in pointers to the various different physicians and tests available. My lining obv has some kind of quality issue, so we need to get a look under the microscope, and consultations with some experts in endometrial dysfunction and to have their specialised biopsies seems like a logical avenue to pursue

The Coventry uterine NK cells biopsy is easy enough to arrange, however the Paris biopsy with Dr Ledee (whose protocol for thin lining I am on) is a bit trickier as my French is really rusty, and my medical french non existent! Apparently her English is good when you have the consultation, but feel the email should at least make the effort in French. Google translate goes so far, but asked for the help of a friend who is helpfully both bilingual and a Dr!!

There’s also an endometrial function test (EFT) at a lab at Yale, although it seems pretty old and I’m not sure how much it can tell us about the endometrium that a standard biopsy and the ERA biopsy could tell us. Anyway, have emailed the Dr whose test it is, and ideally if I have a response I will take that with the info from the above with me when I see my Dr in 2 weeks time

I suspect we won’t be able to do these for some months, as I think they won’t be able to be done with the IUD in, but will make enquiries and see where we stand. Even if they don’t help with a treatment solution (as we’re already doing most if not everything conceivable to get me menstruating), if we could get some insight as to WHY it won’t shed, that would really help me come to terms with my crappy uterus, I think

Hey Banana, glad the new job is providing a distraction for a bit, despite the stress!
Sound like there's still quite a few tests and investigations into what the real issue is which may unlock another treatment that hasn't been considered yet. I've read a bit about biopsies that can be done to tell things like when best time to pop embryos back etc so I'm sure something like that would provide insights into the quality itself. You never know they might be able to do with IUD in...worth asking for sure! Either way the end of the road is not upon you yet. Must be tough with your social circles though. I've got a couple of people with/having babies but still loads who aren't even close to that stage so I am not faced with that so much yet.

Can't believe the Neupogen grew my lining by 1mm with the first wash! I'm hoping that thurs - sat it's grown another. Started progesterone then and think it doesn't thicken after that . Will they measure at ET? I'm so nervous! Not sleeping well either which doesn't help. I've got Thurs and Fri off work and then next week as normal.

Hope you all have a good Monday xxx

Hi Banana - wow, you are so on the case it is just unbelievable. I'm surprised you have time for a full time job.

I really feel for you with your social circle, it must be really hard. It was always the opposite for us before we had DD, most of our friends were either gay and childless by choice (mostly the guys but some girls too), or happily single or pursuing careers. Some married friends had babies in the year after DD. It's only the friends we made through DD (NCT and the like) that are popping them out now, so it's easy for me to find people to blow off steam with at the pub. Even when you have kids you don't want to talk about them all the time, so that must be way too much for you.

Lolly, have faith and think fat! They never measured my lining at ET on any of my cycles, but it was never a concern so I guess they might. Have you decided on 1 or 2? xx

We decided two. My last scan/Neupogen wash was done by another Dr and she recommended we do two. So that's what we are doing! Along with laser assisted hatching and embryo glue! Maybe I'll ask on the day what my lining is. I'm sure they'll make a note of it and be able to tell me.

I'm a bit worried today as I've got AF type cramps and I had a tiny bit of brown mucus. AF couldn't be coming could it? I'm still taking the progynova and started progesterone on sat. Not sure what it could be or what to do!

Sounds like you're getting the works! I wouldn't get hung up on the lining measurement now if I were you. I think progesterone compresses it anyway. If they think you're good to go, I would just go with it.

Cyclogest always gives me AF cramps. Are you doing front door or back door? (sorry, very TMI). I always do back door nowadays as the other way gives all colours of mucus and it just freaks me out too much.

Back door - that's what they told me to do. From what I've read it's much easier!
So you think that's what could be causing my cramps? What about the brown mucus? It was only a tiny bit.

It couldn't be AF could it? I'm worrying a lot now!

Yep it's much easier, cleaner, better in general.

Yes I would definitely say it's that causing the cramps. It's very disconcerting that you basically feel like you're going to come on your period, from starting the Cyclogest all the way through the 2ww, and beyond! I had terrible AF pains til about 9 weeks with DD. Try not to worry about a tiny bit of brown mucus, there's a lot going on in there and you've had lots of poking and prodding. xx

Ok phew - I was suddenly thinking / worrying that AF was going to show up before I'd even got to ET! Or worried that my lining is just giving up! I'll try and chill out. I do literally feel like I'm coming on!

Trying to relax ahead of Thursday but it's so hard.
When does your treatment start again Bear? xx

It's a weird sensation isn't it, it does my head in. My last cycle in September I literally felt like that the whole time - think it was because they had me on 3 a day of the wretched things.

My cycle officially starts today. I have my baseline scan on Weds on day 3 and then from day 9 I start tracking ovulation. It's a different approach this time without all the drugs but I'm ready for a change. xx

Wow that's come around so quick (although prob doesn't feel that way for you). Will be much kinder to you without all the drugs I'd imagine.
Least we'll have each other for company in the next few weeks.

Yer exactly! I literally feel like I'm coming on today, it's really unsettling! Can't wait to get home tonight. Will be leaving at 5 on the dot and cuddling up with a hot water bottle! x

It does feel quick this time actually. It felt like an age between my fresh cycle and the FET last month but I had to take a month off when we went on holiday so it was a bigger gap. Keen to crack on! xx

Hi everyone, I've been lurking for a little while but didn't join as I'm having a fresh cycle rather than FET, but I know some of you from other threads.

Just wanted to say good luck to Bear and Lolly.

Again hope you're doing ok.

Banana it really sounds like you're pushing the medical frontiers. Fertility treatment is such a relatively new area of medicine, many of the techniques are basically new, maybe unproven under scientific conditions, and there are a handful of experts scattered all over the world - sounds like you've got access to a great team.

Welcome BlueRoses! Where are you in your fresh cycle? How's it going?

I've had another brown mucus situation so I've called the clinic and am waiting for the nurse to call me back. I'm freaking out a bit! Cramps seem to come off and on. Just want them to put my mind at ease it's nothing but I'm worried. I'm worrying it's AF, or my lining collapsing or something that's going to ruin everything!!!

Lolly I'm.so pleased the Neupogen wash has worked so well for you! The results from the studies are so impressive - hence why when I showed them to my Dr he said definitely let's give it a go. Seems like they've worked a treat for you!

My lining was measured at ET but it's the thickness at trigger in a fresh / initiation of progesterone in a FET that counts. In my Jan cycle (where I got a BFP) my lining was only 7.2mm at trigger, but 8.5mm the day before ET when we agreed we would definitely proceed with a transfer. It changes from proliferative to secretory so the appearance changes - it's being over the magic 7mm before trigger / progesterone that counts though

bear I know a few people who've done natural cycle FET and had success where medicated FET had failed. Doesn't mean the protocol was the differentiating factor, but just to say they said it was loads more relaxed and can clearly be very effective, if you ovulate regularly and grow a decent lining in a natural cycle.

I have a few friends without kids but they're mostly child free by choice or circumstance (single) and leading wild and crazy lives - and I'm not there any more. My gay friends - male and female same sex couples - are all having babies too. So really DH and I feel like the lone barren outsiders peering through the window of the parents club

blue welcome lovely - I'm not cycling any more as you know but delighted to be cheering you ladies on, and you're very very welcome here. How are you getting on? When is first scan?

I've basically become a semi professional infertile because I'm absolutely desperate. I think I've downloaded every paper on PubMed about thin lining and endometrial dysfunction because I'm such an edge case that I'm frantically searching for any treatments or observations, however niche, that might unlock answers. That's how I found the Neupogen wash and pentoxifylline protocol, as well as hunting down the endometrium world experts for second opinions.

The biopsy you mention about receptivity Lolly is the ERA biopsy, which looks at genetic markers in the endometrium to determine the implantation window - which my consultant already recommended. Although tbh I didn't have failed implantation - I got pregnant in both my cycles so receptivity wasn't the issue. The problem is something to do with the actual quality of the lining itself, so we really need to look at the substrate of the endometrium and know what's going on at a histological level.

We said we'd do a

• standard endometrial biopsy in the proliferative phase to see what it's doing under the influence of oestrogen
• the ERA biopsy at P+5 (ie day 5 in a mock FET after starting progesterone)

However the other specialist biopsies I want to ask about exploring are

• Coventry uNK cells biopsy with Prof Quenby or Brosens
• Paris inflammation and receptivity biopsy with Dr Ledee
• Yale EFT (endometrial function test)

The Yale Dr has already got back to me and said it can't be done while the IUD is in, nor with pentoxifylline, so that would have to be in a mock cycle after the IUD comes out.

There is a question as to whether there is any point doing these diagnostics, as there aren't really any other avenues for treatment to try and get me menstruating. So if the IUD + HRT + pentoxifylline etc doesn't work then it's sort of academic what the biopsies show as we're pretty much shit outta options to solve the problem. But tbh I want to know more about why, even if we can't fix it. If that makes sense?

It totally makes sense Banana. I would be the same. I would want to know EXACTLY why it wasn't working for me. It sounds like you're exploring every possible avenue so at least no stone will be left unturned. Not a consolation if it doesn't work I know but you're not at the end yet!!!

I'm So glad you mention the Neupogen wash otherwise I honestly don't think I'd be waiting for ET. Although not sure if you saw my below post but I've had cramping and brown mucus/spotting today so I'm terrified that either AF is coming to ruin me even getting to ET or my lining is collapsing or something. I've no idea why I would have spotting or brown mucus. Progesterone is back door administered so no cervix involved. Am so worried - waiting to hear back from the clinic!!!!

So I've woken up feeling shit. I bunged up and have a sore throat. Then I had loose bowels this morning! (TMI sorry!). The clinic called back and said they are checking my progesterone levels this morning and to tell them if I'm still cramping and having the brown mucus. Ive not had any more mucus but the cramps are still there. She said if it continues they can give me an injection to stop it before ET.
I'm worried beyond belief that something weird has gone wrong and we won't get to ET.

Hi Lolly - argh fingers crossed it's all ok and you can hang on in there until ET. It's the most nerve wracking process at the best of times without all this to deal with as well. Thinking of you! xx

Thanks Bear. Had my bloods done this morning so just waiting for the results to see if I need to increase my cyclogest. Getting the odd light cramp but haven't had any brown mucus today. I'm still very worried. I thought you couldn't get AF when taking progynova but I'm worried that's what's on the horizon and all this will be over before it's even started.

Lolly hope everything works out for you to ET as planned. I'm afraid I don't know whether it's something to worry about or not but I know you're not going to be able to help worrying. Hope the clinic get back to you quickly with the results.

I'm on day 8 of stims, and have a scan booked in for tomorrow. My last cycle was successful (until second trimester pregnancy loss in very similar circumstances to AgainPlease) but I was borderline overstimulated which increased the number but reduced the quality so I had no frosties even though there were 24 eggs (9 mature, 6 fertilised, 2 blastocysts, 1 pregnancy)! This time I'm having a lower dose for longer to get higher proportion of mature eggs. Last time EC was 11 days after starting stims, so I'm don't know whether EC will be Sat (day 12) or maybe Mon (day 14) or even later?

Hey Blue, yer you're right. Until they call and say everything is fine or tell me what to do I'll be worrying. I am absolutely terrified that I'll come on Thursday or something - the day of ET and they'll have got my embryos or for thaw and then it will be cancelled. I'm just so anxious.

So when I had my IVF cycle I was a slow responder to the drugs (they kept increasing my dose with every scan). I've just looked back at my plan and I stimmed for 13 days. I think it's just something you can't predict! Although I do remember the dr saying we can't leave it much longer as 13 days was a long time so I'm not sure what the max time is. I had low ovarian reserve but I got 10 eggs and 8 fertilised normally. Slow and steady seemed to work for me despite the Dr constantly preparing me for the fact I wouldn't get many eggs/any! They were all surprised on the day! xx

Hi ladies, so I've had a nightmare day. Was cramping again but no brown mucus or spotting. Went for my progesterone blood test and they said it was low (the reason for the cramping and spotting). I had to rush to the clinic tonight for them to give me a progesterone injection. I've got to add one shot a day of the progesterone. Tomorrow they will take another blood test and scan me to check on things. I'm absolutely devastated and terrified that it's all over. I'm worried my lining that took so much to get there has now gone to shit and we won't make it to ET after all. Has anyone heard of anything similar? Will these progesterone shots Save the day? I'm so so upset. I've been sobbing hysterically since I got home.

Oh lolly so much love and hugs - I really have everything crossed for you that the jabs will do the trick. People absorb things differently so the injectable progesterone may well be just what you need. I won’t offer you any platitudes though cos I know how utterly devastating it is to be faced with difficult lining and to be on the edge of an ET - both my cycles we only decided whether or not to transfer on day 4 (i.e. the day before ET) so my nerves were just completely shot to shit until that point. Everything crossable crossed my lovely - am thinking thick for your lining. It sounds like your clinic are taking really good care of you and I know whatever happens that you are in the best possible hands xxx

Blue my consultant is a big advocate of low and slow to maximise egg quality - he says as a rule, he doesn’t like to stim for less than 10 days. I think I stimmed for 12 days first time, 11 days second time, and 14 days third time - and that was my best quality of the lot. Last 2 days I was actually coasting with no stims at all, but he wanted to give my follies longer to let the little ones catch up without losing the bigger ones. He said too quick and you can get too great a proportion of immature eggs and poorer quality - so sounds like lower and longer is a great plan

Lolly that sounds so stressful, I'm so sorry you're going through this now - but progesterone is needed to sustain a pregnancy so far better that you find out now that you need a boost than after ET? Good luck with the scan and blood tests tomorrow xx

It's shit. I'm just devastated. I'm wondering if the cramps mean my lining has already gone to shit? If it gets cancelled I'm going to be inconsolable. 6 months we've been gearing up for this. Weeks of drugs and experiments for nothing.
Sorry I know you ladies are struggling too. Thanks for taking the time to write, I really appreciate the support xxxx

Oh Lolly - this all sounds horrendous. You do indeed seem to be in good hands though, and if it is salvageable it will be salvaged. Keeping everything crossed for you.

I don't know why ridiculously stressful, bleak and depressing world events have to clash with when I'm cycling, it's so unhelpful. The news this morning is literally making me think twice about even going ahead with all of this, as did Brexit back in July. I need to just watch videos of kittens and puppies and babies all day to pull myself out of it.