Failure stories

[BipBippadotta]

I'm far past the point where I'm interested in fertility success stories. Tales of lucky couples who triumphed over impossible biological odds to have their miracle baby make me want to self-immolate. Help me feel less alone in my utter irreversible barrenness by telling me about all the fertility treatments, supplements, folk remedies, voodoo, etc you've tried, that work for every other fucker on the Internet, but did bugger all for you.

I'll start!

Things that didn't work for us:
Grapefruit juice
Guaifeneisin
COQ10
Acupuncture
Vitamin E
Royal jelly
Wheatgrass
Pycnogenol
Low carbing
Inositol & melatonin
Cutting caffeine and alcohol
L-Arginine
Baby aspirin
Maca
B6
Starflower oil
Soy isoflavones
Clomid for DH (to increase sperm count)
Clomid for me
Clomid & injectables
High doses of antibiotics
Prednisone
IVF with ICSI

Yes I agree bip. But by the same stretch then presumably the risk of multiples is so much higher too? My understanding was they if they don't make blast they won't result in a pregnancy regardless?

Transferring 2 embryos doesn't actually increase the chances of a twin pregnancy by more than a couple percentage points - there are quite a lot of statistics on this. It does, however, increase the chances of a successful singleton pregnancy.

Transferring embryos before they become blastocysts doesn't mean they don't become blastocysts, it just means they're in a safer place than a petri dish if/when they do get to that stage.

Sorry, meant to finish with an encouraging comment there rather than sounding so stern! Am multi-tasking and on phone at the same time. Just wanted to say that plenty of people have had successful pregnancies following a 3 day transfer, and your fertilisation rate overall does bode well. Hang in there.

Allowing them to become blastocysts is mainly to select the best one or two of a crop of embryos. If you already have two that are racing ahead, then I agree with Bip, get them in you!

But if they were good on day 5 we would
Have a SET and potentially freeze one. That would give two chances at pregnancy.
Embryologist said that if they were both good on day 3 and they put both back she would say I had a 30-40% chance of a pregnancy but 1 in 5 chance of twins. Add to that the fact that we are having hatching which increases risks of identicals and there's a theoretical risk of higher order multiples which is terrifying.
I think I just have to go and disucss it all tomorrow. Rationally I think they are the experts and this is the logic for having the camera. However everything I've read says success rates better with blasts. My head is screwed up.

Bean everything you say is true, and trying to logically work through the stats and possible permutations over such an emotional process is so difficult, particularly when there are so many variables involved. Good idea to talk it through with the embryologists, they are the experts.

I didn't realise hatching increased the risk of twins. I can't risk multiples with my weak cervix so I'll be having a SET whether it's day 3 or day 5.

Bean I'm not surprised you're feeling like your head is screwed up. It's such a stressful time, where you feel like it's your last shot at influencing the outcome.

Did your embryologist mean your chances of twins would be 20% overall, or 20% of the 30-40% chance of pregnancy?

Success rates are better with blasts simply because you know they've not conked out by day 5, which is a better test of their fitness to implant and create a pregnancy. It's not because putting them in at day 3 affects them adversely.

Whether you wait until 5 days or transfer at 3, it's the same 2 embryos, whose viability is already determined based on their chromosomal makeup. All that happens when you transfer them at day 3 is you lose the ability to keep track of whether they're still going.

In the best of all possible worlds, the only advantage you'd get from transferring 1 blast now and freezing another would be the possibility of having 2 babies at an interval of your choosing rather than twins; in the worst case scenario it would mean 2 unsuccessful IVF cycles rather than 1 with 2 embryos. The horror of this whole process is that you just can't know what's going to happen - and nobody can. You can just make the decision that feels right to you given the information you have at the time.

Could you ask them frankly what their reasoning is behind transferring two? Do they have concerns about whether both of those would make it to blast?

Back to the party, you're right whoever said that it's like hotel California.

potatoes. I'd have done exactly the same with the herbal black tar thing.

robber no, I'm not being treated at the moment. I'm in a slightly limbo like place between giving up and deciding to do what next. As part of the deciding what to do next aspect of the process, I have as Mr EGT puts it "sent him to Greece for a wank". I think that should probably be added to the list of the craziness we've done in this process.

bean its such a stressful time and I can understand why you're feeling deflated. bip and blue have phrased it far more eloquently than I ever could, but if those 2 are clearly the forerunners now, the best place for them to be is in you. Waiting until day 5 is to give the embryologist information about which embryos are the best, but if they have that information at day 3 then there's no advantage in waiting until day 5.

Good luck tomorrow.

Bean the others have far more knowledge than me, and have some great advice. I think you should go with your gut (it sounds like your gut is saying to do a SET?) as that will hopefully leave you with less 'what ifs'.

Blue lots and lots of luck for Monday.

Earl your life about your DH and Greece made me a lot. There are worse trips to have to make!

so this morning there are 4 in the mix so we are going to blast at the embryologist's suggestion. I suspect my thoughts that it was because it needed to be early were right.

Good luck Bean. What are the timescales? When will your next treatment be? (Sorry if this is a stupid question - I did OI, not IVF).

Hopefully day 5 transfer on Monday.

Brilliant news Bean and good luck for tomorrow.

Catching up!

I agree - it was a weird counselling session. She said I was pinning all my happiness on getting pregnant again and that's bad... but yes, being pregnant is actually the only thing that will make me happy right now. I have nothing else going for me.

OH and I constantly fighting. He works all the time and I talk about babies and pregnancy all the time. I was crying about it all this morning (again) and he couldn't handle it so went for a long run and then in to the office. He says he can't bear to see me so upset and he feels helpless. But the worst thing he can do is not talk to me about it or acknowledge my feelings!?! I am conscious that 90% of what comes out of my mouth at the moment is about our dead son, the dickheads who fucked up my care when I was pregnant, and getting pregnant again. I must sound like an absolute bore but I literally have nothing else to live for at the moment.

I'm sure others have been in my situation? How does your OH deal with it? And how do you avoid talking about IVF/ICSI/sending periods to, and having wanks in, Greece ()?

Good luck tomorrow bean!

Bean good luck with ET tomorrow and Blue good luck with EC tomorrow! Hope both procedures are painless and successful. Blue enjoy some afterwards!

Again I think there's only a few people on this thread who have been through anything like what you've been through. I haven't, so I'm not sure I can advise, but DH and I both threw ourselves into work to distract ourselves from fertility treatment and to make sure we had 'stuff' to discuss apart from it. We're both quite work-orientated anyway, so this wasn't a massive stretch for us. We also watched a lot more films/tv than normal, because it was an easy way to spend time together and gave us something to natter about. How is your counselling going - do you have another session soon? Is your OH going with you?

Thanks robber. I have counselling on the NHS but DH went to a private psychotherapist but got bored soon thereafter.

I haven't worked properly since 2014 (when I left my job to focus on Project Baby... we thought, given my age, I'd get pregnant within 3 months or so. HA HA HA). I've kept myself busy with hobbies and projects but I think it's time to throw myself back in to actual real paid work, if for nothing else than to keep my mind occupied.

Good luck blue!

Again I also can't imagine what you've been through. I think it's fair to say infertility does a pretty good job of destroying marriages though. My husband and I def cope in different ways and it's hard. We've actually been doing a marriage course and it's helped us to realise how and why we both do things.

Good luck to you too Bean.

Again sadly I do know have an idea of what you are going through, and it is so hard when both of you are in different places mentally. I found joint counselling helpful, as well as individual bereavement counselling, is that something you could consider?

There were 16 eggs! I'm not going to get too excited until I know the number that are mature and fertilised. I've had more than 50% being immature before, and I'm really hoping the slower dosage will help improve that.

I've just got home and am ready for a bit of a snooze 😴. Just as well I'm off work so I can have a few restful days.

Bean how did you get on?

Hooray blue! 👏🏼👏🏼 Fingers crossed for some good fertilisation.

Thinking of you today bean

Blue that's amazing news. I'm thrilled for you.

All done here and feel a little deflated (not helped by the embryologists having a disagreement in front of us about embryo quality). There were only two blasts. Neither were the front runners on day 3 so pleased we didn't transfer then. Both "moderate" quality - 3bb and 2bb. The latter not good enough to freeze so we decided to have both back. We went round in circles of pros and cons of both and decided that we would rather have twins than a bfn and wonder what if. Consultant suggested it might increase our chance of conception by 10% having both back according to their figures. Not quite sure how to feel.

Hi bean. If it makes you feel any better my son was a 4BB so both your blasts are already better than that :) Definitely hear you on the twins v. BFN debate. I know twin pregnancies are risky and the thought of looking after two newborns is terrifying (so much so that my neighbour kept her maternity nurse on for a full whole year), you'd rather risk two babies than no babies.

I'm not allowed to have two embryos put back due to my silly cervix.

Mine grades 1-5 with 5 being best so actually these aren't as good but thanks again.

Bean my son was either the 3BC or the cativating morula (i.e. pre-blast) that I had transferred and he was absolutely perfect, so don't lose hope. Also I thought with blastocysts, the number referred to the maturity rather than quality (which is marked by the two letters), does anyone know? I'm also allowed only SET due to the cervix issues, so they will take that into account when they recommend transfer dates.