BESH - relocated to less offensive surroundings

[cooperG]

Hi hags, here's our new thread. Did we decide to post the BESH-tionnaire or not? I'll have to go and dig it out if so..

Newbies - we think we're much like the ladies in the 'mind-numbing boredom of infertility' thread ladies, but we can't admit defeat, oh no. After the new recruits kind of dried up over in conception, we've moved over here where there are no insta-differs to send us into fits of rage/tears.

(BESH stands for Bitter Evil Selfish Hags - named so by the Daily Mail I think...) come and be bitter about the shit-ness that is infertility with us...

Place I love a solo lunch, specially Italian.

I am taking Q10, Vit D, Omega 3 (DHA) and folic acid. I am in the UK at the moment and I was very surprised that the 5mg folic acid tablets can only be bought with a prescription... they are the standard ones in so many other countries.

Still, loving the Buy One Get One Half Price at Holland and Barrett

Erica I know. I'm Australian (married a Brit and now we live here) and you just get the 5mg over the counter there. I mean what's the danger? I'm going to o.d. on folic acid?? Sounds like you're not living in the uk atm...Where do you usually reside? Maybe that's too personal...sorry, you don't have to answer.

I'm also taking d3, omega 3, protein powder, probiotics, berroca, magnesium, zinc and melatonin. Plus I use enbrel for arthritis, which is the same as humira. I see they prescribe humira now for women doing Ivf who have high nk cells and other immune issues, so I'm hoping it helps me for ivf too. I'm also wanting to take prednisone, baby aspirin and clexane for my cycle, but will have to see what the consultant will prescribe. Im basically trying to deal with 2 issues. Egg quality because after all I am a hag, and autoimmune issues (including clotting issues)....I get fed up with swallowing pills multiple times per day so sometimes I rebel and don't but then I get the guilts.

Don't worry, I think I have outed myself already many times :) I usually live in Spain but I travel to Eastern Africa a lot for work so it does get hectic. I met my husband in London and lived here for several years so we come to visit friend and the pubs fairly often.

Melatonin? Interesting! I take that for insomnia, I did not know it may help with TTC too.

I have protein S deficiency so I will take baby aspirin and clexane for sure and I am going to try and take Prednisolone too! I actually have some at home but I don't know if I would dare go rogue and take it even if my doctor advises against it. I know I will feel guilty whatever I do if it doesn't work out!

That does sound hectic! Sounds great too! Where's your clinic? We live in Ireland, but getting treatment in UK. Luckily I can stay with mother in law for treatment. She is a lovely caring woman but insanely annoying. I'm here currently and for next 2 weeks as having a few appointments...this will be a test of how ungrateful and bitchy I become by the end...sometimes I fake headaches so I can hide in the room.

Yes I have a couple of bottles of prednisone in the cupboard leftover from arthritic flares.I think if they refuse to prescribe it for the ivf, I'd want a damn good explanation. The only transfer where we had a (brief) bfp was the only time taking low dose prednisone. They prescribe it empirically, so unless there is a reason NOT to take it, I'm taking it. Bloody inflammatory auto immune bullshit. As if it isn't hard enough.

I was originally prescribed melatonin for sleep too and then by happy coincidence learnt that they recommend it for egg quality, esp those with low AMH, mines not crazy low, but it's only downhill from here right? I've never been tested for clotting issues, but my platelets are usually elevated, so I want them to throw everything and the sink at it. I really hate the let's wait and see attitude. It's such an invasive and expensive process, why wouldn't you want to give it your best shot from the start!? Right, rant over (for now, lol)

I love the sound of your solo lunch Thisis, hope you had a glass of wine too. I went to the cinema by myself the other day, love it. Saw Tale of Tales - crazy fairy stories including one about a king and queen who want a baby so they're told to cut out the heart of a sea monster, have it cooked by a virgin and eat it. I'm surprised some acquaintance hasn't suggested that to me.

I am sorry about your multiple surgeries Erica, you really have been through the mill (as have you all). Were they related to your MCs? Sorry if that's a stupid question. I hope you survive staying with your MIL Thisis - two weeks is a looong time!

Hi ladies,
Just wanted to wish you all the best of luck with your cycles, I really hope you get a BFP and get away from all this shit!
I've just finished my first Clomid cycle and have a discovered a new found respect for menopausal women ! I've had some serious hot flushes.

I've had such a crappy week too, lying out of future plans, just in case I might be starting IVF by then it's all a load of crap isn't it. I've also just become an auntie for the 4th time, I know I should be delighted but I can't seem to suck it up enough to go and visit, of course I don't want their baby but it's what that baby represents. I feel so bloody envious then guilty at the same time!
Thank goodness it's Friday, have a lovely weekend ladies.

Hello all, I'm not posting much as I feel a bit of a fraud hanging around here having already been lucky enough to have successful treatment.

I thought I'd let you know that my latest treatment cycle has been cancelled as the Drs aren't happy with my "too thick" lining. I've been on the phone to my GP to get some pills to nice a bleed to hopefully we will start again in 3-4 weeks.

Cavemum - there's no fraud in you having had successful treatment. I'm sorry if all my moaning has scared you off, but Its not like you've had 10 kids and complaining about hard it is to conceive THIS time...it sounds like your first child was hard won, so you've been where we are all now. Please don't go...who will I be able to complain to!?

Friends - what's the go with clomid and testing then? Have you had an opportunity to see if it worked, or are you onto the second round?

Rebecca - that's hilarious...where can I find these mythical virgins (and sea monsters)

Rebecca No, not stupid at all. I had to have a laparoscopy to check for endometriosis, then mc-d and needed two D&Cs to deal with it, which resulted in left over scar tissue in my uterus that also had to be removed... it was a fucking nightmare.

Wait, wait, wait... I have some great advice that will get you preggers asap... WHY DON'T GO ON A HOLIDAY?? OR RELAX??? OR STOP THINKING ABOUT IT AND IT WILL JUST HAPPEN??

Rant over.

How are you Cave? Sorry to hear that the treatment has been delayed. Please stay around!

Place How are you? They stopped selling melatonin at Holland and Barretts, now.

Today is the last day of my holiday and tomorrow the pre IVF plan starts... which consists on... trying to be healthier? Trying to be more relaxed? Any tips??

hello BESH, Ho is everyone?

I've just come from our initial appointment. We were there 2.5 hours! God I wish I could go to these things alone. My husband, unless you know him can come across as abrupt, rude and aggressive, esp if the topic is about his testicles!! Anyway he ended up upsetting the nurse who had a go at him and he had a go back and I ended up uncontrollably sobbing - god what an absolute cluster fuck! We all made up in the end, but I just didn't need it

Things went better on the actual treatment side of things. My amh came back at 8.3 which they seemed perfectly fine with, although am pretty sure it's a bit low. So I'll be doing a long protocol with an aim to be collecting early September, which seems so far away! I'll be having an endometrial scratch, prednisone, aspirin, heparin and they are recommending Embryogen. Can anyone tell me if they used it, what their thoughts are about it etc? Would love some opinions. Consultant also recommended acupuncture, omega 3, vit b,c and d and a high protein, low carb diet..most of which I am already doing.so I was quite pleased with his attitude to that kind of thing! Anyway, just waiting for period to arrive so I can get my pelvic scan. Hopefully everything is ok there or they may change my protocol...I hope the nurse doesn't mark us down as a troublesome couple and we get black marked or something.

Sorry for all me post, still feeling fragile and eating my weight in scones and clotted cream...Fuck that low carb diet

Oh btw, Erica did they find endo?

Hi Place,

Sounds stressful, hope you are feeling better today.

Your consultant sounds great, most will not commit to recommending changes in diet, acupuncture etc :)

What is Embryogen? I have taken all the others, except prednisone, and I understand that the main side effect of that one is insomnia (which I have any way!).

Re the scratch: I had an endometrial biopsy around 2 months before due to start, I understand the "effect" is the same as the scratch... Does the timing sound ok? Too early before IVF? It is not pleasant to be honest so not super keen to repeat but it seems to really increase success rates!

Oh, I am also taking Q10, which is meant to improve quality. And doing the Circle and Bloom meditations (don't laugh!)

Hello, didn't realise another BESH thread had started up, I'm a bit behind! Will be able to follow and lurk now .

Just wanted to pop in as I noticed a question about immunes and treatments so thought I'd add my experience. After 4.5 years of TTC we decided to go for the full immune testing before spending money on our very last ivf. I came back positive for the mthfr gene, high th1:th2 profile, and elevated nk cells. I'd already been diagnosed with factor v Leiden thrombophilia at the recurrent miscarriage clinic.
We'd had three miscarriages by our final ivf, as well as 5 failed rounds of clomid, a failed iui and two failed ivf rounds (as well as 'successful' treatments that had ended in MC) so I think due to all the immune factors we never stood a chance of successful implantation, my body just rejected everything (all of the pregnancies failed around 7 weeks).
Anyway, our final cycle included intralipids drips (4 of them), prednisolone, heparin, folate, progesterone and acupuncture before and after embryo transfer. I was on Q10 for three months prior. We had two embryos put back and both implanted but we lost one early on. The other is still fighting, I'm currently 16w pregnant.
I don't believe for a minute we'd have got this far without all the immune treatments.

On the telling people thing - both of us have always been quite open about the fertility and the miscarriages, DH even raised money for Tommy's and we told everyone why.
What's weird though is that I can't bring myself to tell people I'm pg. 16w and still haven't told some of my closest friends .

Anyway, enough about me, hope it's not rude to barge in whilst not ttc, but wanted to preach the immune treatments to those who were asking!!

infertility not fertility, fucks sake.

Oh, and we had embryo glue. But not the scratch. I screamed the place down last time I had one .

Circle and Bloom!? snigger, snigger....
No seriously I'm definitely going to do something similar. Some kind of meditation pre and post transfer. I've had a look at those circl and bloom CDs online and wondered what they are like....what's the go? Do you like them? Or will I smash them over my mother in law's head? (I'm really reaching my limit here. Period is late of course. I can't leave and go home until it's arrived!! Gah!! Shut up woman!!!)

Embryogen apparently is apparently some magic additive to the embryo culturing media, something about it increasing the chemical communication between embryo and mother. Google it, it will give you a better explanation than I can.

I've heard the biopsy is more effective than a scratch, Are you going for another before this round? I'll have it somewhere around day16, so I think the timing is good. And yes, the steroids are shit. I get headaches and insomnia. I call it my roid rage and husband knows to just leave me alone.

So did they find any endo? Wondering what, if any, treatment there is for that....also how are the pre ivf plans going?

Cavemum did you get your pills? Have things started?

Friends have you had to see newborn yet? I don't envy you! I hope its not too painful.

barking you posted as I was writing. Thanks so much for the immune info. Intralipids is the only thing I can't access at my clinic and I worry it might be something I'll need. I'm hoping with everything else I'll be covered, but if we fail, I think I'll have to look into it. Oh also embryo glue. Ahhh there's so much to feel guilty about! Anyway congratulations on being upduffed, was there any one thing you think made the difference, or was it all together kind of thing?

this I think it was the prednisolone and intralipids. The other stuff we'd tried in previous cycles.

Thanks Barking! This is all very useful info and so glad it is going well.

So far my antibody tests have come back normal but if the prednisone won't do any harm, I am more than willing to take it and I am asking about the intralipids during my next appointment.

Will look up Embryogeny and the glue (can't help but visualise a tube of Loctite Super Glue that will force the embie to implant!).

Re: Circle and Bloom. Yes, it is a bit cringe at times BUT it does help me relax. I have my doubts on whether it has any effect onto outcome but it puts me to sleep and calms me down when I am going a bit mental (a bit.. ha ha!). That said, you can probably save the 40 quid and download some meditations or check youtube out.

Any thoughts on melatonin, Barking?

They did find (and removed) some endo but it was what they call "minimal" around my right ovary and it should not be a reason for taking me so long to get preg or to miscarry. I think the only treatment is laser and I got a BFP straight after having it removed (I mc-d at 7 weeks)...

Just a quick one here. Off to gp tomorrow to see if they'll do a level 1 immune system test and if they'll prescribe me some melatonin.

Also, I've had a year of 25 day long periods. Now that things are starting and I need it to arrive, I'm currently up to day 30 and counting I can't go home and be with my beloved cats, or husband or get out of MIL's perpetual drama until it arrives.

Hope all the BESH are doing ok, or better than ok. Would love updates from all!

What? Fucking typical about the delayed period... I am sure I will be the same this month, waiting for IVF to start...

Let us know what they say regarding the tests and the melatonin (they sell it in the supermarket in Spain, all these regulations are so weird).

So I am seeing the consultant today for a pre treatment recap:

I need to ask him

• Would he recommend another biopsy/scratch before we start ? (crossing everything he will say no because it is fucking painful).

• Would he give me prednisone despite the immune system tests coming back normal? (another consultant suggested "going all out" on these).

• What is exactly CD1 for them, since I always spot for a few days before the flow gets properly started.

Any suggestions, BESH? Am I forgetting something major? I know I can always e-mail him afterwards but still.

This is happening!!!!!

Huzzah! Erica is getting started! Whoooo! When is day1 due? Tell me yet again what protocol are you doing? I'm still confused about how the long protocol works.
What about low dose aspirin or clexane etc, are you concerned about progesterone levels? That's something I forgot to ask about...
Also, pretty sure day1 is the first day you need a pad/tampon..spotting doesn't count, but def check with your clinic.

So the GP was an absolute champ. She just said yes to everything I asked for. I asked for melatonin for sleep and let her know I had used it before with success so she was happy to prescribe, even though under nhs it's only meant for over 55s, weird. I think you can get low dose in health food stores, but this is 2 mg tablets and for IVF they recommend 3mg/night. Blood test, God, so many...all of the level 1 immunes plus a bunch of others...basically checking for clotting issues, thyroid issues, inflammation issues and any deficiencies. I'm a bit worried about over suppressing, but at the same time am definitely having some arthritic flares atm (fuckng typical...just when I thought I was nice and stable, plus ouch!)

Also, there is maybe the start of some lovely brownish hue to my nether region juices, plus some delightful cramping...please let this be the beginning of a nice super heavy clear out period!

Oh also, what about embryo glue or intralipids or any of those other add ons for culture mediums or assisted hatching or sperm selection etc, not sure what is applicable for you and mr erica's situation or what you think is rubbish...just trying to stretch m brain here. Sorry just reread that you're already on the aspirin and clexane

I did read that a long down reg is sometimes recommended for endo patients, but as yours was mild, might not be necessary.

Barking wanted to ask where did you buy your folate?

Erica - my clinic said day one was a day of a heavy bleed that occurred before 1pm. I bled at 1.30 so panic emailed them and they said count it as day 1!

Toe holds a plenty and nipple tassles ready to go for you Hag.

Hi to all other Hags, hope the bleeding kicks in soon Place.

Still lurking here and cheerleading for my Hags

(Ps. Barking, 17 weeks here, only JUST started to tell some people. I know you have a thread but I'm occasionally on PESH if you ever need a hag on hag talk)

Place - Pisci for sperm if you have can get it at your clinic (picks the most mature ones, was really cheap at my clinic but I was in Czech Republic)

Hello, can I join here? Looking for some people to chat to as starting IVF no 2 (first ended in CP)in July for the second time. Just got my last period today before starting...anyone else still vainly hope that they might miraculously be preggers at the last minute before IVF even though they have been trying for years?!!

Interested in the chat around embryo glue also. We have said yes to this, mainly because in the overall eye watering expense this is a mere drop in the ocean but I fall for any old gimmick so don't go by what i say!

Wondering what anyone's thoughts are around telling people vs not doing? Last cycle everyone seemed to know and in the end I think it did my head in. No-one apart from people who have been through it know what to say to make me feel better and I often come away from conversations with friends just feeling worse...

MIL asks my husband EVERY time she speaks to him about when we might be doing IVF again like it is any of her business. She was super fertile, having had five children who are also super fertile, so family gatherings are fun with us feeling like the odd ones out :( :(