BESH - relocated to less offensive surroundings

[cooperG]

Hi hags, here's our new thread. Did we decide to post the BESH-tionnaire or not? I'll have to go and dig it out if so..

Newbies - we think we're much like the ladies in the 'mind-numbing boredom of infertility' thread ladies, but we can't admit defeat, oh no. After the new recruits kind of dried up over in conception, we've moved over here where there are no insta-differs to send us into fits of rage/tears.

(BESH stands for Bitter Evil Selfish Hags - named so by the Daily Mail I think...) come and be bitter about the shit-ness that is infertility with us...

Erica DCW wasn't really there for any of my injections, and to be honest he wasn't much help when he was. I asked a friend to come round for moral support when I did the first one. You get used to it quite quickly. You've done the fragmin, I think you'll find these needles a lot easier .

SoSam I had the scratch a couple of times and the second time I screamed the place down. They couldn't get the speculum in properly to access my cervix. Took two nurses and the consultant to get it in. Didn't bother the last time as my consultant didn't seem to think it made a difference anyway. I had the embryo glue each time as he seemed to think there was more evidence to support this (and it's painless, which was a bonus).

Erica if it helps I can mock you over messenger when you have your first jab. DCW seems to think this helps.

Thanks Barking, that's really helpful. I've had a few of those, 'your cervix is here somewhere' appts too. Very painful indeed.

Hi SoSam sorry you find yourself here...it's a great place to vent though, esp if you're having to go to baby showers, ugh, you poor thing.

Barking, I am now terrified of the scratch after your story!! I've always been pretty tense in these situations, even had the awkward experience of FS soothingly say "juuuust relax now" whilst trying to shove a dildocam into me while my husband looked mortified and I turned bright red, long moment passes "just relax now"....where do you look in these situations?
I'm really bad at keeping up with where everyone is...what are you up to? Are you cycling any time soon? Sorry if that turns out to be an idiotic question.

Hello everyone, hope things are going ok, well as good as they can be, considering...

I had a huge amount of blood taken yesterday to test for any obvious immune or clotting, thyroid issue, and today have my pelvic assessment, the one that goes with the amh...do other clinics do that? It's cycle day 5 and I guess they're counting follicles and making sure I have a uterus. This means I get to go home tonight!!!! Yaaaaaaaay! I can't express that enough. I've been staying with mil who's a bit batshit lala...unfortunately she's elderly and had a fall yesterday, thankfully hasn't broken anything and will be having some at home care. I offered to stay to help of course, but was soooooooooooooooooooo grateful when we worked out an alternative with her sister and home care help. I've been here since 15th June and really need to get home to my cats. And my husband, lol.

Thanks Barking... and yes, some mocking over messenger may help me get over my whaaaaaaa! I think my apprehension is caused by IVF finally happening, rather than the actual injections ...

Place I love everything about your post (sorry!) and the fact that you are going home to your cats (and husband).

My scratch was not horrendous-horrendous. Ok, whoever says it is like a pap smear, lies LIES LIES. But the sharp pain only lasted a few seconds. My clinic offers painkillers and even Valium to be taken beforehand.

The fear of not having an uterus is real. I am always so relieved that my whole reproductive system has not just disappeared into nothingness (not that it does much to win its wage, but still).

Sorry to hear about MIL, hope she feels better soon.

Hi everyone, and thanks for welcoming me into the fold. This shit is starting to get real now, injections on 21st July. Don't mind that bit, is all the headfuck emotional stuff that really gets me down :(

EricaJ I was laughing at your post about feeling relieved that things actually are going on "down there" I had a scan last week to count follies and was happy to see it all there on the screen! I have totally lost faith in my reproductive system and my body to do as it is supposed to!

Thisistheplace bet you can't wait to get home! You deserve a medal, I can't even last five mins sometimes with my MIL without wanting to get out of there.

Feeling a bit disheartened by the clinic when talking through EC and ET. They are closed on weekends and so even though they like embys to go to blast, they need to put it in before the weekend even if that is day 3. Not sure how I am feeling about this. The clinic maintains that it makes no difference and if "it's going to work, it will work anyway" but I feel a bit disheartened. Anyone have any thoughts/experiences on this?

Just started a new job on Monday and everyone has bloody kids or is preggers, they all are younger than me and look at me weirdly wondering "why are you so old and have no kids?" Or maybe it's just my imagination and the way I'm feeling right now!

Good luck all on your journeys. It is really great to talk to other women going through the same thing.

Mmmh... interesting question. I am not sure if my clinic is open at week ends? What do others think...? And what do you mean by day 3? Sorry if I seem uninformed, it is due to my ostrich-ey nature when it comes to this.

I get the same "you are weird" looks. I am 35 and been married for 8 years when people realised this, you can see the children question in their eyes. I want to say "do sit down, love, and let me tell you a very LONG and SAD story...".

My injections should start on CD2 so around Tuesday next week!

Clinics like to take embryos to day 5 blast stage if they can, but if you get a decent amount fertilised (unlike my 2) the clinic will rate their quality day by day. By day 3 they have a very fair judgement of which one is your best bet. My clinic was open at weekend so we went to blast but the one that is now bluelet was already the front runner at day 3 and it wouldn't have made a difference if they'd put it back early. I believe Barking was a day 3 transfer??

Erica this may not be relevant for you if you are having PGs? My clinic test then freeze embryos for PGs and then transfer on another cycle?

Jenbot my clinic were also closed at the weekend. I had a day four transfer in the end as there were two clear winners. The clinic said there was no difference between success rates with day 4 or day 5. They timed egg collection so day five would rarely fall at a weekend though.

Erica On standby for mocking I found the whole thing a very stressful headfuck because there was always something to worry about. Woo needles helped calm me down.

Place many, many ladies have had the scratch and not murmered about it. The actual scratch was fine, it was the speculum that hurt (and always does) because my cervix is awkward. Or I'm just a drama queen. Either way my reaction to it was memorable enough that for egg collection they put an extra nurse in the room just to hold my hand.
I'm currently diffed, just lurking to see how everyone else is getting on. I saw the question about immunes so popped up to give my experience but haven't otherwise been posting really since bfp. It was our very last private round of ivf that worked, with the entire kitchen sink of immune drugs to accompany it. After 4.5 years we'd exhausted financial and emotional reserves and decided no more after that one. We've had three previous miscarriages following successful treatment in the past so it's all been rather nerve-racking small understatement and at 17weeks we've told close family but we're not 'out' yet and I'm hoping I can continue to hide from the world until post 20w scan.

Anyway, way too much about me

Hold on! Are you telling me that after they take the eggs out I could spend FIVE DAYS waiting to see how they embie or embies are doing?? Like, getting calls telling me they are dying and stuff?

So say, they take the eggs out on day 12-14 (sounds about ok?) and then they put them back on day what? 19-20? And then you wait two weeks?

(I do have a really thick file from the clinic with the info but every time I open it, I start to hyperventilate...)

Barking, come back, we need your counsel, hag!

Blue you stay here! :) You did PG as well, right?

Yep, sorry Erica - it's absolute shit. At my clinic you phoned them to see if they'd fertilised, then at day 3 and day 5. (And had very gruff Eastern European lady shout "yes!! Embryo fine!" And put phone down on me )
I was incredibly lucky from 3 eggs, 2 fertilised and made it blast but I could have sobbed each time I called waiting to see if any survived. I have fingers crossed for lots of lovely eggs for you which helps reduce the anxiety a little I think?

I wanted PGS but with only 2 fertilised it wasn't worth it and she just popped them both back in on day 5. Clearly one was a go-er and one wasn't. I hadn't planned for 2 back in but I'm glad I did

Barking I knew that would end up being an idiotic question and now you say it all, I know you are diffed and I know you popped up to help us out with immune stuff, sorry, my head is a mess atm.

Erica you poor love. Firstly, try not to stress more than the usual amount. The way it works, according to me is they stim you and scan you until they think they're gunna get as many as they're gunna get. It could be day12-14 but they might keep you going a bit longer to try to get more mature. Then they harvest you and basically recreate the fertilisation and development process in the Petrie dish. So day of egg collection, they'll tell you "we got 14 eggs, 12 were mature and 8 fertilised" or whatever (that's how my last cycle went). Then you'll call in or whatever the protocol is there to see how the little ones are doing and it's shocking but it really is a diminishing returns kind of thing. They'll tell you if they're dividing at the right rate and how many are left, and as you're doing pgd, they'll need to go to day5. By day 5 I had 2 blastocysts. So had one put back (5 days after egg collection), but on day 6, two had caught up were frozen. Then You're technically 5dpo and the embie needs a couple of days for implantation and then a few more to develop hcg so yeah, test away...anyway..that's my version of how IVF works, please correct me everyone if I got it wrong cause I'm really not in my right mind atm.

So back from my scan...apparently I have a beautiful uterus...textbook she said [preens] so, thankfully it's there...now off to obsessively Google if 4 and 5 baby follicles is ok on cd5 naturally.

God...seriously ignore everything I just typed and listen to blue who is making a lot more sense than I am I wanna go hooooooome whaaaaaaa!

Place - you did a much better job than me congrats on your beautiful uterus. I apparently have a "lovely vagina"

Thanks for your feedback on the 3 day vs 5 day ladies, reduced my anxiety a lot. Erica it is pretty rubbish the whole waiting thing, that is the bit that I am dreading the most to be honest. Learn from my mistakes and keep yourself busy. For some reason in my first round of IVF I decided to take a lot of time off work and seem to recall me being at home a lot excessively googling reading and watching films etc. It was decidedly unhelpful. Next time I plan to be busy, like really busy, so I don't have to think.

Thisistheplace I had my scan the other day to check my uterus, I had a "beautiful lining." Also lots of follicles-25- many more than last time. So of course I was excessively googling that as well. Am hoping it is a good thing although when I asked "is that good?" they said "well they won't all produce eggs and really it depends on the quality of the eggs." Not sure what I was hoping for...maybe "yes that is wonderful, you will DEFINITELY come out of this process with a baby, and live happily ever after..." LOL.

No-one's ever told me I had a beautiful vagina though...gutted!

Lovely vagina definitely trumps beautiful uterus
I have been told I have a long vagina, but I don't think that counts hmmm now I'm curious as to what makes a beautiful vagina and how do I achieve one? Quick blue take a sneaky pic and post stat!

Yes jen absolutely everything is a headfuck isn't it!!

Yeah so dr Google just told me that 9-10 antral follicle count is rubbish. Fuck you dr Google!

Hi ladies, i had never thought about the clinic being shut at the weekend, something else for me to investigate. Also I hadn't thought of the dwindling fertilised eggs, how fucking depressing!
Sorry for being an idiot, couple of questions. What does pgs and pgd mean?

Thisistheplace I completely agree, Dr Google is a bitch

Erica you need to prepare to get as busy as possible because I'm not going to sugar coat it, it's one big menkulling mindfuck from beginning to end. First you start the scans and you start obsessing about how many follicles and thickness of lining and whether it's triple lined. Then you obsess about whether you have too many/not enough follicles, or whether you have a couple of leading follicles and if you wait for the others to catch up the might be over mature, but if you don't wait you might only get two eggs.... Then you start stressing about egg collection. Then how many eggs they get out. Then how many fertilise. Then the quality and number of embryos each day. Then you have the embryo transfer and it's the worst 2ww of your life (only it's less than 2 weeks if you pimp when you want rather than when the clinic tell you to) and then you can start obsessing over symptoms and wondering when to pimp.

It's so much fun.

As I said, start booking in fun things now. Be as busy as you can possibly be. Without overdoing it of course, or that would be something else to stress about .

Of course you could be one of these people that doesn't over analyse, just takes it all into their stride and breezes through the whole process like a walk in the park.

If you don't fall into that category I'm here for toe holds and ranting .
And fish slaps.

Thanks everyone, this really, really helps a lot.

In "normal life" I am actually very organised and thorough but for some reason I get a bit panicky when looking at said thick file ...

Jen I am always sort of hoping for the "" "yes that is wonderful, you will DEFINITELY come out of this process with a baby, and live happily ever after..."

I never had my down belows complimented, boo! Just got told that I had a very narrow cervix (yeah, oh maybe you are a bit cackhanded with that speculum, mate!)

Sam PGD is preimplantation genetic diagnostic - basically they take a cel from the embryo and screen for genetic conditions. it is advised in some cases (it is pretty expensive, nearly as much as the whole IVF treatment) but it is recommended for recurrent miscarriage if no other cause is found.

Thanks Barking, I think I will take your toe hold and fish slaps A LOT.

Good tips everyone on keeping busy, I was really torn between booking stuff to distract myself or just lying in the sofa for 4 weeks (possibly crying).

I am likely to be a mess. I will find all the reasons to worry and then some. So trying to distract myself is the way to go. I will be at work and then I will organise evening stuff... how strict is the stabbing time? Does it need to be at exactly the same time every day?

I did my stabbing in the morning before work (got up a little earlier which was fine as it prepared me for 12 weeks of needing to be awake 35 mins early for the Fanjo bullets) I don't think it's massive strict but I found it easier to get over and done with. (That's Gonal)

The trigger shot is massively strict and made me freak out and just sit on the bed for an hour in case I missed it

Do you know what, despite all the complaining I'm doing - I would do it all again. It was shit at the time, but i can barely even remember the stabbing now and the panic at each stage seems like a distant memory (and even though I've been really really lucky to date, I did panic - 2 fertilised eggs!! What are the chances of those making it to blast and then sticking, I was convinced each time it wouldn't work) all of that worry and still, if/when I need to I would do it again. (I think this is what instadiffers say about labour??)

Interesting, Blue, my doctor asked me to stab in the evening, the idea being that I go for scans and bloods in the day, he sees the results and he can adjust the dosage accordingly.

I was asking because it is hard to distract yourself if you need to be home at 10 pm on the dot every night... specially in Spain, where that is when you would meet someone for dinner! My friends suggested 7-8 pm, you can go home and stab after work but before going out. Sounds like a good solution.

Blue, it is really encouraging that you feel that way. I am trying to psych myself for repeated treatment and then the utter hell that the first 40 weeks, sorry 12, will be for me and Mr Erica if the treatment does work... it helps to know that people do come out the other end sort of sane :)

I personally didn't find it that bad at all and not a hardship if I was to get a baby at the end. I think I would be wondering whether to do it again if I had tried and failed x amount of times without a take home baby though.

I thought the stim drug wasn't too time critical but the other one, the one that stops you ovulating they were pretty strict on timing and of course the trigger! Once you start Erica you'll be fine. I've only been through it once myself.

Back home with my little furry babies. Oh I missed them. I think if cats lived as long as a human, I could content myself without a baby if IVF didn't work. I know, completely out of touch with reality here, but I seriously see them as little humans in cat costumes. I know their little nuances. I worry over them and they love me as long as I feed them. Babies are overrated! (massive self protection and denial going on here, lala lala)

Blue2014 your message really cheered me up earlier on today when I was having a quick nosey on the board. Lots of baby chat, guy in our office who is going to go off any day on paternity. Everyone oohing and ahing. I started to feel so down and thinking "what is the point, this (IVF) will never work anyway!" Hearing from someone who went through the process and it worked for them was a real tonic. Cheers :)

Hear you EricaJ about even if it does work there being anxiety. Hard work! Sending happy (calm vibes)