Any success stories and ideas for secondary infertility?

[Annabellaboo]

Hello ladies.
I am hoping to get some ideas and support on here.
I am 35 years old, very healthy with a 3 year DS. We have been trying to conceive our second child for 2 years now. I became pregnant very easily with my first and had an easy pregnancy.
This time nothing.
I have had all the tests the nhs provides. Progesterone normal, I ovulate, DH sperm count is normal, no blockages etc etc. I have tried charting, ov sticks, changed my already pretty healthy diet (cut out refined sugars and have lots more greens etc, and alkalised my body). I take advised supplements and have even tried acupuncture.
I do however have short cycles, sometimes as short as 21 days but averaging 24. This is a little shorter than I had before my DS.
We cannot afford IVF and I am not sure I can face that anyway.
My consultant last month has prescribed me a half dose (25mg) of clomid, which a scan showed on the first round it definitely boosted things even more with a good few mature follicles. I already ovulate but she thought as my cycles are quite short and a little irregular it may give me a boost.
I have been convinced several times I was pregnant (oh how cruel our bodies and brains can be!) but AF always turns up.
I guess what I am asking is does anyone have any other suggestions of things I could try or why I can't conceive time. I am open to theories and alternative methods.
Any experience in this subject and success stories please share.
I try not to stress about it all, but some months it just really gets you down as there is no real 'reason'. The hard thing is watching other mums around get pregnant multiple times so easily.
Thank you for listening!
Anna

Home insemination job sounds interesting, Closephine. I've never done that either. Sounds like you've given it your best shot. How chuffed would your DH be if his technique actually worked?!

Yep, also seeing pregnant people absolutely everywhere and find myself becoming more and more annoyed with them as time goes on. Our electrician is 10 years my senior and was telling me how his wife is pregnant with their FIFTH child. And went to an old work do, and one of my colleagues (also prob about 7 -8 years my senior) is pregnant after literally just getting married so obviously happened straight away. Eurgh.

Haha rose, I've already thought how smug he would be if it works. I don't think I'd care tho!!

And regarding the insemination thing I've probably shared too much here... but it just shows how desperate we have become. I would never have even considered in before.

Good evening ladies.
Closephine- sounds like a fair and plausible plan from DH. As you said you have tried everything else so why not?! I am also sort of going for a similar method this month despite DH not having a sperm issue. It's more a case of I am sick of 'duty' sex and am just trying to plan the timing a little more accurately (back to opks for me). Figure one or 2 carefully timed big loads (excuse the crudeness!) is better than worrying if I got the timing wrong and feeling obligated to have sex for longer periods of time. How romantic life has become!
My mother once emailed me a link for some insemination thing! Bless her with her good intentions but how bloody awful! Thanks mum! I considered it but all the reviews I read were pretty rubbish and it was pricey so I decided not to bother. Might reconsider it-I will try anything of course!
Good luck with your 2ww...
Katymac and rose- I hear you with the bumps everywhere. They just keep appearing more and more don't they?!! I guess that's the reality of when you are around people who have any children, there will always be more on the way. For me at the moment it is becoming more frequent with the question of are we going to have another one. It is coming up all the time now. Strangers, friends, colleagues. DS is at an age where people naturally ask. I also look young for my age so I am sure nobody would imagine it would be a problem. I usually just smile and say yes maybe one day and make some flippant comment about my little rascal being enough of a handful. Easier that way, and I don't get too bothered by it. But then my son asks me why don't we have a baby...then I feel like a failure

Haha, Closephine, don't worry, I really don't think anything is too much information for me anymore! I probably talk about our fertility issues in too much detail to some people without realising just because I'm so desensitised to it all now .

Must be so hard when your son asks you why you don't have another baby, Anna. This is something I'm dreading so much and I'll probably burst into tears when my DD gets to that stage, which I guess won't be too long.

closephine I'm sorry but the imagery you left me with is making me smile. I've been thinking of all the possible ways you could try ... 😳

anna people stopped asking me in my mid 30s so now they have no expectations at all as I'm "too old". They also stopped asking me if I'd ever get married.

Today my dd (7) brought up the impending due date of my mc baby. I really didn't expect her to remember and I'm thinking it must still be on her mind. This was one hell of a blow to me said been thinking earlier I was getting to a stage where I was no longer getting upset by the people who were due at the same time as me. It's her desperation for a sibling that hurts and now the age gap would be so huge that they'd have quite a distant relationship. But it would be better than no relationship at all.

Well schools went back today where I am. My school gate nemisis appears quite heavily pregnant - although I'm hoping she's just spent the summer eating too many pies. She thinks we're scum (we're alt parents) and I thinks she needs to stop breeding so much. Looking at the size of her she's due within a few weeks. Another who would be due around the same time as me. I'm just feeling sorry for myself

Ladies could I have your objective opinions please?

I have started spotting again at 4dpo. This has happened twice now, in the two months I have NOT used progesterone pessaries in the last six months. In the months I have used the pessaries - no spotting.

I emailed serum as I thought I'd probably get more sense from them than my own doctors. They said that the pessaries shouldn't make any difference to my cycles in the months they are not used. They said brown blood a few days after ovulation (which it is) is usually old blood from ovulation. This would fit, however the spotting seems to continue (very very lightly) until AF arrives.

I guess the opinion I'm looking for is:

A) do you think that even though they said it wouldn't relate to the progesterone, it actually does?
B) should I sit it out for a few months, not using the progesterone and see what happens?
C) should I start using the progesterone now and see if the spotting stops? (I think some women are told to start it from 8dpo so don't think it would be a problem to start it now)
D) any others ideas on what could be causing the spotting? I had clear smear test in May and also the lap and dye in Feb found nothing...

Sorry this is a bit me me me, how is everyone else doing?

Oh... Or one other option :)

Could the spotting be a result of something the laparoscopy caused in Feb, some kind of change to my cycle that the progesterone masks when it's being used?

It's a tricky one, Closephine, it's something I've also had on and off, and no doctor seems to have a clear answer. I don't think it's caused by the laparoscopy, as they don't go into the uterus, only the abdominal cavity and the outside of the uterus when doing a laparoscopy.

Good that you've had a normal smear. It may be worth also just doing some infection screens to rule that out, though you may have already done that and it doesn't really sound in keeping with infection. The face it is continuous before your AF makes it sound less like infection, though if it comes and goes at all then I would definitely want to rule out infection.

Does it last more than a week then before your AF? Have you spoken to your doctor about it?

Funnily I had up to a week of spotting the last 6 months, and then last two it's just gone back to 1 day or so- I still have no idea why.

Thanks Rose

We are planning on having the hidden infection tests with serum so that may flag something up.

It only seems to happen in the months I've not used progesterone and so I'm wondering whether to stop using it completely for a few months and see if it clears up. It has a definite pattern - starts at 4dpo and carries on very very lightly until af, so I guess for 10 days or so... Then after af goes back to normal again.

If I've had the dye put through my tubes, they must have gone into my uterus wouldn't they?! They also did an endometrial biopsy so I think they must have gone in.

When I went for my smear, the dr agreed maybe it was the progesterone, my clinic also only seemed bothered about me having a normal smear. Other than that it didn't seem to concern them. I mainly worry that spotting this early could mean I can't possibly get pregnant?! Although the lady from serum said that lining shedding is more of a bright red spotting closer to af. Not the brown I've been having. Ugh who knows?! I'm such a worrier and these curve balls do not help!

Hi ladies, closephine I too have had spotting in the past as you know. I personally do think it's progesterone related but of course can't be sure. I do know it was at its worst for me when I was run down and my cycles weren't what they should be. I have also heard that some women may spot around ovulation and it can be totally normal. For me it was always before my period so was a little different from yours. Also means for you it possibly isn't progesterone related as this should be when levels would drop closer to your period. I would say it could be a symptom of endometriosis but you know you are clear for that so no worries there. Sorry I can't shed any light!
Bloop- sorry you are having such a tough time, sounds like you have been good through all the roller coaster emotions for some time now.
Rose-how is all with you? 2ww yet?
I am currently or about to ovulate(according to opks) carefully timing things this month but have done that many times before and obviously had made no difference!
Feeling happy and blessed for my little boy.
However he just this morning looked at a pic of him as a baby and said "why don't we have another baby? Why will no one give us a baby? Can we get one today mummy?!" I actually sort of chucked to myself as it was so sweet and funny, if only it wasn't so bloody tragic! Ah the irony as I often ask the universe the same questions! I have got used to answering his questions on this topic now and just tell him maybe one day if we are lucky we will have another baby but if not that's ok because we are a lovely little family the way we are. Now to remind myself of that....

Sorry, closephine- yes j thought you meant the laparoscopy where they go into the absolute cavity only, but of course yes the dye test they go into the tubes- and my spotting also seemed to happen after I had my dye test, so maybe there is something in that?! But yep who knows its all such a mystery. I think an infection screen is a good idea if that's what serum are doing.

Anna- I love your explanation to your little boy about why you don't have a baby yet- he sounds adorable but gosh that's hard isn't it 😞

Btw bloop- I how the return to school wasn't too traumatic- I'm kind of dreading my dd starting school (preschool) in sept and having constant reminders of all the other multiple child families.

We are in the 2ww now, Anna- we only ended up dtd once in the end as I think both of us got a bit freaked out by the idea of triplets, ha! So I very much doubt I am pregnant. We are off on holiday Tuesday so hopefully that will be a nice distraction

Closephine - part of the reason I think I have poor progesterone production is that I spot from early on in the 2ww. I've never been given progesterone pessaries to try despite asking anyone that would listen.

I had a laperoscopy in April and have only had spotting a few days before af starts which seems to be my normal so I doubt the lap would have caused early luteal spotting to continue every month since January.

My Dd has been in breakfast club and after school so I haven't seen anyone since day 1. I'm the antisocial parent who doesn't rush up to hear the gossip.

I decided not to bother with ttc this month. I didn't bother with opks or supplements and my cm has been more 'normal' than it has the months taking supplements. i haven't felt ov happen so ive no idea if I did or not this month. Only dtd twice too as oh is on his ridiculously long shifts until October. Will resume then when he has enough energy to keep up ;)

I'll stick about and likely still get obsessed as I near my period but I don't expect anything.

Anna - I had a similar conversation with ds and then a few days later, he asked one of my friends if her son (his friend) had any brothers or sisters - she replied 'of course he does X is his brother' to which my son said 'I don't have any yet, I just have to be patient'

We are storing quite a bit of stuff at my parents at the moment and I think need to get our act in gear and clear some of it soon. The other day my mum asked 'are you going to need all the baby stuff in the shed?' To which she got quite a short 'well I don't know, do I!?' I think she realised her faux pas quite quickly!

Bloop - sorry I missed your post with all my me me me spotting saga - back to school is tough! Well done on avoiding all the small talk though, it's some of those chats that can be the most painful.

My latest plan re the spotting is to not take any more progesterone for the next few months and if it is that messing with my cycle, hopefully it will sort itself out. All that I can come up with from extensive googling is that it could be a hormonal imbalance... And the only thing I've done different is take prescribed hormones! So I guess it fits? I'm not sure whether to mention it to my Drs in the meantime or not. They never offer much reassurance and the last time I mentioned it, all they were interested in really was that I got a normal smear and then they just prescribed a load more progesterone. Hmmm.

I'd basically written off this cycle and then when out dog walking this afternoon I had two really sharp sudden pulling pains in my lower tummy (8dpo) - cue extensive googling of 'what does implantation feel like?'! Hah I'm a glutton for punishment me!

Anyone out there?! :)

Rose - have you found out if you have quads onboard yet? ;)

11dpo here. Spotting continues. Yesterday thought it was turning into af but today it's back to really light again. Called my clinic and they basically said don't worry about it. Easy for them to say! Oh well. This month is a write off, at least I knew for like 3dpo it hadn't worked I guess!?

At least I haven't just chewed on a wasp like my dog has just done whilst I typed! Every cloud :)

Haha closephine your poor dog! Hope he's ok?! Sorry you're still spotting. Doesn't sound quite right to me even though the doc says it's nothing to worry about. I think sometimes they just say that as they don't know the reason and can't see the point in investigating further. It could have something to do with progesterone even though they say not.
I'm about 6dpo. No hopes up this month, kind of over being too hopeful most cycles now. We are currently waiting to find out if an offer we made on a house has been accepted. We had no plans of moving at all but due to a business opportunity we are trying to get this one house. The only thing that worries me is that it's huge compared to our current house and if we never had another child it would feel too big! If only I had that crystal ball....

Thank Anna, I agree, def not right but just going to have to wait it out and see what happens next cycle. I need to decide whether to jump back into another IUI cycle and put more artificial hormones etc into my body... or to drop everything and 'have a break' now until Ivf in January. The second option feels more appealing.

Good luck with the house offer - hope it all works out. Does it mean moving to a new area?

Dog is fine now. She was pretty sorry for herself at the time now - don't think she'll try and eat a wasp again anytime soon!

Hi closephine,
Yes a tricky dilemma about the drugs. Personally I would probably want to give my body a break and be as Detoxed as possible so to speak. Perhaps the iui drugs could have messed with things a bit and caused the spotting? Do you take any hormone regulating supplements?
Still not heard about our house offer. We would only be moving less than a mile away in the same town. It's a house that my husband could have his business on site and be at home more which would be very good for us. Plus we would have the house of our dreams (after some cosmetic work). It's a big decision for us and would mean borrowing up to our eyeballs, but totally worth it because of the business. But I need to fill it with more kids! 1 more is fine, I will take that-please!

Hi ladies, I had similar sentiments about our new house, Anna- it's got 4 beds and desperately needs filling- feel a bit guilty having such a big house just the 3 of us. Like you closephine, I was saving one little room for the new baby, but it just looked so sad with my dd's old baby curtains and lampshade, I decided to turn it into a study for me!

I am in 2ww, so no news yet. AF would normally be due Monday but I'm not sure if the drugs will have messed with my cycle. We'll see. Mixed feelings this month of obviously not wanting AF to come but also will probably breath a sigh of relief once I know I'm not having quads, haha.

Hope you hear about the house soon Anna, I guess you might hear on a Saturday?

Rose - I had my office installed last weekend. I love it. It looks amazing but was still secretly hoping having it out in would result in an ironic Bfp! Have you had any symptoms/your spotting? How big were the 4 follicles when they stopped the drugs?

I'm so pissed at the way this cycle has gone. So irritated that I still let myself hope even though I knew deep down it was a write off. Spotting has got darker and more AF like this morning, even though AF still not actually due until Sunday. What a ridiculous month.

I think I agree with you Anna about letting my body detox. I didn't have any problems before I started putting stuff into my body, so adding more surely won't help in the long term?! FED UP today. Poor DH's plan didn't even get a chance to be tested really.

Oh, I've been taking just coenzyme q10 and a woman's health vitamin - to be honest, I do well taking them the first 2 weeks, then once I've ovulated tend to forget about them! Think I might add b6 in for luteal phase - that was the only vitamin I took with ds and fell pregnant in the 2nd month I took it (7th month of trying). Probably just a coincidence but might be worth a shot.

Sorry to hear about your AF probably starting, Closephine. How frustrating, I don't blame you for hoping though, it's just so hard (correction- impossible?!) not to, especially when you're trying something 'new' of sorts. It's all just so shit. I had some weird dreams about random pregnant people last night and felt really emotional when I woke- I think this is prob a sign that AF is on its way. I'm with Anna that maybe stopping the progesterone isn't such a bad idea.

I can't quite remember my follicle size, we're on holiday ATM so don't have my records- I think about 17 or 19 if that makes sense? Does that make a difference to when your AF starts?

Hope your dog has recovered btw, it did make me smile- maybe the dog could sense you were gloomy and thought that would be a good way of taking your mind off things?!

Good luck with the house offer Anna- we did it recently and it was stressful but BRILLIANT distraction from all this- if only one could keep buying new houses.😉

Hi ladies not much been happening so not wrote in a while but have been checking in to try and keep up.im looking for som advise 3 days ago in the bath I felt somethings down below so had a feel sorry tmi and loads of stringy cm came out with streak of pink blood it was like super glue then nothing then yesterday I had more but smaller amounts but red this time so thaught af as it was due but it looked weird like a bit fleshy woke up this morning and had a massive clot then full blown river all tests bfn so I knew I wasn't pregnant just don't understand it as I always spot then heavy periods with loads of cramp etc and I always flare my arthritis when I'm on.should I mention this to my doctor any one had anything similar?sorry it's all me me me.good luck with the hous Anna hope u get it and get to fill all your rooms!closeophine iv read b6 can help so fingers crossed that's just what your needing.bloop school gates are baby central for me too but I didn't have my green eyed jelousy more of a sad there so tiny and beautiful wish it would be my turn.i said to my friend about the age gap if it ever happened and she pointed out her sister is 12 years older and brother 8 years younger and there all real close so I suppose it's crap there will be a large age gap but it does happen.xx