Infertility meltdown

[HappyAmbler]

Hello ladies

I'm a long time lurker and very occasional poster.

This is really just a rant as I'm feeling so utterly shit this evening - hence the title (was crying when I started writing this ). My DH is asleep upstairs as he has to work tomorrow.

This is my third cycle of clomid and AF has just arrived. We have been ttc #1 for 19 months although in that time I've had 22 cycles.

I'm just feeling totally lost as I was only prescribed three months of clomid, and my next appointment at the NHS fertility clinic isn't until mid Feb - so I'm basically going to have two wasted cycles in between.

We still don't really know what the problem is. DH and I are both 31, his SA was normal, my blood tests and ultrasound were normal, my cycles are pretty regular and I'm fairly certain I ovulate every month (temp rise). The only possible factor is my post ovulation (day 21) progesterone levels are 'borderline'. i.e. they indicate ovulation has occurred but not high enough to sustain pregnancy.

I really thought the clomid would 'fix' this seemingly minor problem. And it has in the sense that my post ovulation progesterone levels have been higher, and my luteal phase has been longer, but I'm still not bloody well up the duff

Apparently the next step is HSG - feeling stupid for not insisting this was done before I started the clomid, but I was so convinced the clomid would work...

I guess I'm just starting to panic now. If we don't know what the problem is, how the hell can it be fixed??

Thanks very much if you've got this far. I'm not sure why I'm posting, just needed to get this off my chest I guess. I don't know anyone in RL who's going through this, so it's just helpful to know there are others out there.

Hi Victoria, that does sound weird! Has the doctor given you any explanation for the day's bleed pre period? I sometimes get a few spots a couple of days beforehand, but not even that recently, just straight into AF.

I don't have endometriosis - did wonder, given the symptoms - but they checked for that during my laparoscopy and nope, not a factor. Guess I can entirely blame OH for our lack of a BFP!

I received my copy of the hospital's referral letter which was sent to our GP, explaining that they were referring us on to another hospital for IVF as fertility investigations had been unsuccessful; tomorrow I'll phone up about a date for our referral appointment, so I can book the day off and have something to work towards. However, the letter says that we need to have chlamydia tests?! (I'm assuming it's both of us, the letter isn't specific!). When we first started TTC and I had the blood tests, I also went to the sexual health clinic and had all the tests there, as I was told we'd have to have them before being referred for IVF. No-one's mentioned anything about it since though until this letter…..

My friend with breast cancer has had a further setback, they found cancer in her lymph nodes as well and she's had an op to remove those. She'll definitely have to have chemo now, probably starting before Christmas

Shell, exciting news about your rapidly approaching IVF! How are you feeling?

Your poor friend Ruby. Is the prognosis still as hopeful now knowing that it has spread? Horrible to have chemo right before Christmas (or ever!), but I guess the sooner the better in that situation.

Can't believe the letter casually mentions chlamydia testing? How unorganised is this NHS!! Here in Aus, it's a simple urine test. Why don't they just have a list of all the pre-IVF fertility investigations and organise ithe ones applicable to each couple in one appointment. They just like watching women age and killing their parenting dream.

I would have a nervous break down on the NHS, although I guess the difference here is that I am paying through the nose for my treatment. I am now in my IVF cycle Ruby and have my first scan this Wednesday/day 6 of my cycle.

They've obviously not forwarded your sti test results to the relevant people rubes. Sounds typical nhs to me! Our test results were not forwarded to our clinic by the GP so we were initially 'rejected' by the clinic. Good job I kept phoning and pestering.

Hope you get it sorted and get a date to work towards soon. We should be getting a date Thursday! Eeeeeek!

Good luck at your first scan shell!

Hi Victoria

We had the chlamydia tests etc done while having fertility investigations last year and had all the same tests done again earlier this month at our private fertility clinic where we are going to start IVF/ICSI which I thought was odd because surely they have the results from our tests last year.

So it is the same whether you are doing it with the NHS or privately, maybe it is common practice to do the twice because they are helping you to make a baby so they have to make sure?!

No big deal though just a blood test and a urine test for both of us xxx

Just been for my smear. Told the nurse we were ttc and that was reason I've come so early in cycle to miss ovulation. Also mentioned amount of time and appointments at local clinic. Do you know what advice she had for me? "try to relax!" Argh! Ffs! Although she did wish me luck with treatment and that local clinic was renowned for success rates so that's a plus. But flipping relax?! Apparently she tried for ages with her first and got preg when they'd stopped trying. Well bully for her!

Sorry to hear about your friends diagnosis ruby. Sounds like her hospital doesn't do intra-operative lymph node techniques if she's had to go for a 2nd op. That makes me mad that its not offered at every hospital in the country. Happened to my aunt too. I wish everyone could get the treatment and care offered at my place of work. I'm one of the few people trained (80 in the whole country) to carry out a special technique during the first lump removal op to diagnose spread of cancer in specifically breast cancer patients. This eliminates the need for waiting weeks for test results and having a 2nd procedure done. Treatment could start so much sooner! Rant over!

"Try to relax" - possibly the least helpful advice I've ever heard….. if I'd 'relaxed' then we'd never have found out why we've had no luck TTC and our wait would have been even longer!!

I called the hospital about our referral and heard the usual "it doesn't usually take this long, but…." To be fair the lady I spoke to was really helpful and said they're short of consultants but are trying to shuffle clinics around this week, and she expects that they'll contact me within the next week or so once that's organised. However, it will probably be around two months before our consultation, between the lack of doctors and Christmas after that we should have the nurse appointment within a month and start treatment shortly after that. Allegedly…..

I booked our chlamydia tests via the GP. Even the receptionist couldn't understand why we hadn't been told before about it - the hospital we've had all our appointments at has a large sexual health clinic, we could have popped in there!

Your job sounds really rewarding Victoria my friend had some lymph nodes removed during her lumpectomy, but from those they diagnosed the cancer had spread to the rest of the nodes, if that makes sense? I could go on and on about the NHS incompetence she's already suffered from but she's back tomorrow for her op results, which hopefully they won't manage to cock up.

Good luck Shell!! Everything crossed for you!

Try to relax! I've had that comment by two people recently. Might be well meaning but it is the worst advice ever. Makes me do the opposite of relax as I try to bite my tongue and resist the urge to punch them! I take blood from people and chat about my IVF. Speak to lots of women who gave up on IVF and live a child free life - they didn't conceive when they stopped IVF because they simply gave up and relaxed. It's a medical condition. Grr. Okay there's my rant.

Second rant is about scan results today. Only 8 follicles in total. I usually start with 16-20, but this time I only have a measly 8. And then they say about 1/2 of them mature, so that means 4 measly eggs. But now I am thinking that perhaps I do have 16 follicles but the lady only counted the largest ones and that all these 8 have the potential to become mature? Not sure if I am clutching at straws here. Have next scan on Friday so it's going to be an anxious wait until then when I find out.

LOL Shell, I can see the temptation to punch them!! If there's nothing wrong then maybe relaxing would help, but in our case (and yours) there are medical reasons why it's not happening, so it would be no bloody use whatsoever!

I hope you have good news on Friday and we can all celebrate as you know, I haven't been through IVF yet, but at all the talks I've been to the doctors are keen to point out that it's quality not quantity of eggs that matters. So I wouldn't worry about having less this time!

However, speaking of relaxing, has anyone tried acupuncture? My Zita West book really recommends it, but I hate needles, think I might find it more stressful than helpful!!

Yes must try to remember that Rubes - quality over quantity. If it were free, I wouldn't worry about quantity at all. If it were only two mature eggs, I would tell em to knock me out and grab them and not waste a chance. But at $6000 a go, and knowing that statistically a decent number of eggs does increase the success rate, then it does make me consider if I should abandon this cycle for the hope of more eggs another cycle.

Todays scan showed a follicle at 14mm, 11mm and 10mm.
The report said there are 6 more follicles less than 10mm.
Apparently they don't bother measuring anything under 10mm.
So I have no idea if these other 6 are just behind at 7-8mm and will hopefully grow and catch up meaning I could get up to 9 eggs, or if they are tiny at 4-5mm and won't catch up, meaning just 3 eggs.

So basically I still have no idea. Perhaps 3 eggs. Perhaps 9.
Another scan Monday. Hopefully then I will be out of my misery.

And yes I do the acupuncture. Not something I ever believed in before all this, but I would roll in cow poo if they told me that would help fix this so I am giving it a try. While I don't find the needles relaxing, I have actually enjoyed going to a lady and telling her why I am there and where I am at in my IVF cycle. It's like a little counseling session too! I am a facts person and since starting acupuncture, have actually read some very statistical studies online showing it helped mens sperm and another that it increased implantation rate when done on the day of IVF transfer.

I'm so frustrated for you Shell - as you say, you're paying $$$ for this, and a bit more help/ information would be much appreciated. Grrrrr! I hope you enjoy the weekend and this doesn't prey on your mind too much - I mean I know you'll be thinking about it, but I hope you have nice things to take your mind off it :-)

Good idea about the counselling with acupuncture, I might ask them about it at our IVF open evening on Monday, see if there's anyone they can recommend.

I went to see my friend last night, she looked so poorly, it was heartbreaking she's had 4 lymph nodes removed now and is still feeling rubbish and very tired. Soon she finds out when she'll start chemo and how long it'll be for. I just hope they have managed to remove all the cancer, or the treatment will be even more gruelling.

Hi girls

Had my clinic appointment yesterday! We are going to be having iui in the new year. Mid-Jan when af comes I can start my injections and scans and stuff. I have a "planning" appointment a week on Monday (Dec 8th) where I presume they tell you what you need to do when and where etc. Am hoping dh will come with me to that as he's currently being funny about it. He's worried his boss won't let him have the time off work. I just told him to take it as unpaid if he won't. A few hours unpaid leave won't break the bank!

Sorry to hear you're having egg trouble again shell :-( How can one person be so unlucky with this?!

I have reflexology sessions and treat them like a counselling session too! The lady who does it is so lovely which helps and I never want to stop having it lol!

Yes vic, it seems whether women do acupuncture, reflexology, yoga, etc, it's all about what helps them mentally rather than physically get through this. So it's IUI as the next step then!

Ruby, I've survived the weekend! I'm off for another scan tomorrow -day 10 by which time my 6 smaller follicles should have grown to above 10mm if they are going to come to the party and I should finally be out of the dark about how many eggs I might produce and if it is worthwhile going ahead with the huge cost of EC.

Glad things are finally happening for you both at last.

Any news Shell?? Thinking of you!

How did your planning appointment go Victoria? Sorry to hear your DH is being tricky with these things! Is he just worried about the money side of things - not wanting to spend money and/ or take hols unnecessarily whilst you're planning a baby? My OH is generally ok with these things now, ever since I nagged him a lot about how important they are explained that it's what we need to do to ever get anywhere with the bloody NHS…..

Speaking of the evil system which is the NHS, I have FINALLY got my Outpatients appointment through - I suspect only because I complained so much about how I was being treated!! It's not my fault that they are short of doctors, if that's the case then we should have been warned and given other options, not just told "oh you'll have to wait" - well that was a red rag to a bull, I loathe bad customer service in all forms. Even more frustratingly, there's no wait for the IVF treatment, but I have to have an Outpatients appointment first!

That is very frustrating Ruby to have to wait for an outpatient appointment to go ahead with IVF when there is no wait for IVF treatment! Good on you for complaining. So do you know when the appointment is?

I have my egg collection tomorrow/Friday. That part is fine. The part I am dreading is the call the following day. It's usually bad news and I just can't cope with any more failure so I am already dreading it even before I have had egg collection.

Great you've got your appointment now rubes, when? This year?! No wait at our clinic either the thing that gets in the way of starting next cycle is bloody Xmas! They close from Dec 23 til Jan 12th! Apparently its a regulation that the lab machines needs to be turned off for 2 weeks a year. I work in a lab. None of our stuff is turned off for Xmas, we've even got people on call Xmas/boxing day etc. I even asked if the staff had all that time off but apparently they do 'admin'.

I haven't had planning app yet, its next Mon. Prob have forgotten all the vital bits by mid Jan tho!

Good luck with the egg collection shell. Will be watching this space and keeping everything crossed for you x x

That's a new excuse vic. Lab machines need a break for Christmas too eh! I hope you have lots of plans and time passes quickly for you.

Just came back from EC. They retrieved 6 eggs. But there's no guarantee all of them are mature. And then of the ones that are mature, usually not all fertilise. So I am on a knifes edge until I get a call between 1pm and 2pm tomorrow to say what happened with my 6 eggs.

Hi Shell, good news about your egg collection, 6 hopefully ready to go!! I hope you get great news about how many are ready to be transferred as well

LOL Victoria, what an amazing excuse….. lab machines need to be turned off for two weeks?!? I used to work for a scientific company who serviced them, I can assure you we were busy all year round!! I think it's just another way of saying the NHS closes down for Christmas…..

My appt is next Wednesday - hopefully it will just be a formality and we will be good to go for our first proper IVF appt, presumably in the New Year. I can't see why we would be refused at this stage but you never know I'm a bit worried about my weight as I am slightly overweight for my height, BMI 25.4 according to the NHS website, most of which is since that bloody op. Still trying to find a good diet book about what to eat for IVF, but most of them are very general!

rubes don't worry about your weight, its fine. They are only funny about clinically obese, BMI over 30.

I def know the nhs doesn't close for Xmas. We just get Xmas day and boxing day off, unless you've drawn short straw for on call. Luckily I missed it by 1 person. Working sat 20th instead.

Good luck with your 6 eggs shell be thinking of you and watching this space.

Got a call today. Of those 6 eggs. Only 3 were mature and of those 3, 2 fertilised. Really frustrated that only 3 were mature. For my follicle sizes that should not have been the case. Will definitely do some research into this if I were to embark on another IVF cycle as I don't want to repeat that. But I can't even bear the thought of another IVF cycle and the pain of this cycle not working out.

So for now, focusing on these two eggs. I have got an appointed on Monday for the transfer of them both. I am willing them to both survive until then.

Ruby, I too think a BMI of 25.4 is nothing to worry about. Although I can totally understand that after all this, when you finally go through IVF you want to make things as optimal as possible for it to work first time. At least it sounds like you only have to lose a tiny bit to be under 25.

I hope you get some great news today Shell - it must be really frustrating to not know why things happen the way they do in IVF (as I'm sure I'll find out soon!) - from the way it was explained to me, it's like any medication: they take their best guess based on your past medical history but of course, that doesn't always reflect how people respond to it! But, two eggs are definitely better than none, that's one for this cycle and a spare to freeze if all goes well

LOL Victoria, I believe you about the lab closures; can't believe they would try to tell you such porkies! Far better to say "we don't do this over Christmas as we don't have the support staff" or something that is closer to the truth!

As for my weight, I'm still a bit down over it, having tried so hard this year and not got very far (well, I had until the op, which turned out not to be needed anyway!). However, I have a day off today and need to get out of the house to escape the builders, so it's the gym for me….. that's a good start, right?!

Aarrggghhhh! Trying to work out whether OH needs to come with me for my gynae outpatients appointment on Wednesday. As far as I can see, it's completely irrelevant for him, it'll be about my medical history and fitness for an operation (i.e.: IVF). But the letter says they 'strongly recommend' that he comes. I'm loath to take him as he's self employed and he hasn't been needed for most of the previous appointments, but would this just put us to the back of the queue if he doesn't come?! I've had to email the hospital in the end as no-one in Outpatients could/ would give me a definitive answer over the phone!

Ruby, I wonder if the BMI statistics saying that those in 20-25 have better outcomes is a bit misleading. Another study shows that those with high protein low carb diet have far higher success, regardless of BMI. Well, those who are quite overweight are far more likely to be eating lots of carbohydrate bread, crackers and chips as opposed to the healthy BMI women who might eat a salad for lunch and meat/fish/chicken with veg for dinner. So perhaps its the type of food choices as which happen to result in a higher BMI as the reason for the poor quality embryos as opposed to the actual fBMI figure itself. So I say if you are eating healthy and heading out to the gym, you are giving it the best chance even if the scales puts you JUST over 25.

Can't believe the frustration with the NHS continues. Hope you get a reply to your email before your actual appointment!

Ruby, I actually had the two put back this cycle rather than freezing one! Just so fed up and want to up my chances as much as possible. So this aspect may be all new to you but at my day 3 transfer yesterday, I was told one embryo was 11 cells and one was 14. The standard embryo development for day 3 is between 7-9 cells. You would think that a higher cell number means they are developing quicker and hence, a stronger embryo. And while research shows that these embryos which make it to day 5 in the petri dish turn out to be the strongest embryos of all, they actually have a higher chance of dying on the way to growing to day 5! So who knows whats going on inside me now.

Oh, and I was told yesterday that my 3rd egg did actually fertilise... just happened later. It was 5 cells at 7am day 3. Was told that it needs to be 6 cells as their minimum to freeze on day 3 which could happen by end of day, or I could grow it to day 5 to see if it survives til then before freezing. I chose to freeze it at day 3. Probably silly as probably better to know now if it's going to go the distance instead of getting my hopes up for another cycle only for it to fail. But I can't afford to keep doing IVF so I just wanted to get this one frozen in time before it dies so I have a glimmer of hope for the future rather than being super stressed in this 2ww that this IVF has to work.

shell its great that you've made it to transfer this time! I'm willing your little ones on. Best place is inside you not a Petri dish :-) I hope your 3rd straggler keeps going too x

rubes they do say the man needs to be present at the appointments but you can get away with him not being there for some. Dh was def needed the first appointment where we were given our options and agreed to treatment. Although Dr said dh wasn't needed at yesterday's planning appointment I'm glad he was plus he had to sign some paperwork to say he agrees for his sperm to be used in his wife only!

Long post from me today ladies, I'm feeling a bit blue about the whole TTC thing…..

Firstly though - Shell, that's amazing news that two of your little eggs are doing well, hopefully the third one is just a back up plan!

Went to the appointment today and it was completely pointless, nothing they couldn't have done over the phone and that hasn't been discussed endless times before for us to get to this point - allergies, medication, how long have we been trying etc. They did take my height and weight (BMI 25 - phew!) but didn't mention it at all, plus that had been done at my last appointment with the previous hospital a month ago. We were there all of ten minutes before being given the numbers to call to book an ultrasound and our first consultation appointment, and that was it, what a waste of an hour and a half's drive and a morning off to get there.

I asked if we could walk round to book the appointments in, seeing as we were in the same building, but apparently I have to wait till tomorrow for the correct bit of paper to make its way there…..

I sobbed all the way home about what a horrible, joyless process this is and how the NHS seem to make it more difficult for you at every turn, rather than being encouraging and positive. To be fair, my first GP was when I went for my very first appointments and perhaps they will be when we get to the actual IVF stage, but at the moment it's red tape at every turn. I've had an ultrasound before - we paid for it privately only a month ago - but apparently that's not acceptable, I have to have it done there too despite being able to provide a copy of the results.

The nice IVF quality care manager who emailed me to follow up on my complaint got a long ranting email earlier, I can tell you! I said I was appreciative of her help but I didn't see why it was such a difficult process, and if I'd had to wait two months for that appointment (which is what they initially told me) I'd have been furious. I've been re-reading the Marisa Peer getting pregnant book and she was describing how positive all the American clinics are; cynical me thinks they're getting paid enough so they should be, but it's so stressful dealing with the NHS and they have NO REASON to be so crap, that just seems to be the way things are.

OH can't understand why it's getting me down when to him, the end is in sight - we're finally close to actually having IVF - but I'm so bloody fed up with the whole process, and with everyone else popping out sprogs no problem, when I'm trying to think of what excuses I can tell my manager to leave early/ start late. Sometimes I'm angry with OH, no other word for it, for having a misspent youth (that's what I'm blaming his low sperm count on!) when I've always looked after myself, and now it's me going through everything.