Assisted conception after recurrent miscarriage

[duggs1976]

Hey super ovulators and those struggling with infertility after miscarriage this is where we are! Come on over ...

just a quickie from me as work is mental

ari this happened to another lady I know, her hcg was low etc she had a lot of bleeding, then her hcg went up and then again and again, she is waiting for her scan, my fingers are still crossed for you, not trying to give you false hope, big hugs

will return . . .

pebbles I hope you're right too, I guess I'll only know for definite (assuming nothing drastic happens in the meantime!) at the scan on Thu. I do feel like I'm throwing away money at the moment - with tomorrow's blood test and Thursday's scan I will have spent £365 just on hCG/progesterone tests & this scan alone. It's nuts.

buzzy Love you for your optimism, don't think it's my time for a miracle but thank you for the thought anyway :) Tell us how you're doing, when you've a work-free minute?

Ari can you not go and get a scan at your local EPU tomorrow? At least then you will be able to see if there is a sac etc and if its in the right place and it will be free. Seeing as you are bleeding you have a right to go anyway. I think I would do that first before having another blood test seeing as you have spent a small fortune already on them. I am presuming you are paying for private scans at the moment?

Thanks for the advice on the steroids, I think I will drop them down to 10mg as I am on the V high category and take 25mg at the moment rising to 40mg at BFP. They make me feel so depressed which is hard to handle at the moment. Went to yoga this morning which helped!

Pebbles I think ZW are just so busy that they have a long waiting list rather than monitoring.

Think I will test at 12-13dpo as want to get intrallipids in early if poss. Don't know why I am bothering to worry now as I am sure I wont get a BFP this month.

ari, couldn't you have the scan at EPAU to save the price of a private scan? I know it's not much consolation with what you're going through but spending out even more than you have to is adding insult to injury.

I went to the eye hospital yesterday. I can't remember whether I've told you ladies about the visual problems I had on the steroids this time, but basically I had blurred vision and the pressure in my eyes went up to 28. Both my parents are being treated preventatively for glaucoma so this is a bit scary. I saw a horrid doctor who needed some lessons in interpersonal skills. He seemed to see me as a pair of walking optics, not attached to a human being. Very grumpy and impatient and just did things without really explaining what was happening or why. I had to have a very unpleasant procedure done which involved an instrument being put in my eyes in direct contact with the eyeball itself. He kept saying 'Relax!', like that was going to help. I had make-up streaming down my face, and I said to him that the appointment letter ought to specify no make-up to be worn. He replied that he normally only sees old people in that clinic! Then he dismissed me with a goodbye and I had to go back into the waiting room and then the main hospital looking like a panda or that I'd been crying. I want to complain but I've only just finally made a complaint about the psychiatric ward I was in after having my DS four years ago and they might start to think I'm a serial complainant.
Anyway, he was very unhelpful in the respect that he didn't really tell me to use or not to use the steroids any more. The pressure is still high and I have to have it monitored from now on. He didn't think the steroids could cause high pressure directly but it's the blurring that worries me too.
Then I rang up my NHS gynae consultant's secretary to see if the results of the karyotyping were in. I have an appointment next week, but she couldn't see that the results were in, although my file wasn't there because it hadn't come back from the evil eye doctor yet. If it turns out that they didn't do the karotyping I am going to be hopping mad ...

I would go to my EPU but they told my GP the last couple of times I was pregnant that they absolutely would not do early scans unless there was severe bleeding, and even then they are reluctant to do anything before 8 weeks. They say they're too rushed, too many people on their waiting list for scans, and never mind that my GP specifically requested early scans for me. They just weren't interested. I guess if the private scan on Thu doesn't show anything in my uterus at all then it will have to be GP-referral PDQ, but then because we're dealing with potential ectopic you have to hope the hospital will help!

Oh crikey brown, what a horrible experience with the eye hospital! Why oh WHY do we have to fight all the way for decent medical treatment? It really depresses me that you have something potentially wrong but then have to fight to either be seen, or to be taken seriously, or to get results, or ... well, you all know! Actually what you say about eye pressure is interesting - I had a standard eye check-up at my optician last year and for the first eye test ever I was told the pressure was up in one eye. Never seen that before, and they said they'd keep an eye on it (sorry!! :) ), but it didn't occur to me there may be a link with the steroids.

I made that joke too yesterday .
That is so dreadful about your local EPAU. Mine have always been very helpful and not too horrendously busy when I've needed scans. Perhaps pop over the border to another PCT or whatever they're called now and present as an emergency. I'm sure that your hospital would help though in the event of an ectopic, but fingers crossed that won't be necessary.
The eye doc said that steroids would only rarely cause increased pressure in the eyes; he thought my family history and possibly pregnancy were the main issues. But they can cause blurring. The blurring started for me quite suddenly after a few days of 25mg. It has improved now I'm off them, but not completely gone, although my eyesight has deteriorated anyway in the last year or so so it's difficult to disentangle.

Hi I've just had my re test for tnf alpha and need two more injections seems to be the case for most
Mine started at 44 gone down to 36 not sure weather to have more as they don't re test again so how do u know if your any better off
If I don't do it chances of concieving are low
Sorry to read some of the ivf have not gone well, this is a route we may now have to look at
Choccy what did dr s recommend when u couldn't have the Injection?
Good luck to those with scans always looking to read about the positive stories

Brown sorry to hear about your eyes. The first time I came off steroids I def got blurred vision, are you taking Hydroxy too as that can cause probs with your eyes too.

Ari still being in limbo must be so frustrating. Can you self refer to your EPAU?

Back home now. They managed to get 6 eggs which is great. Had a bit of a shocker when the anaesthetist said the only anaesthetic he had was soya based, so in the end had some other sort of analgesia and something to give me amnesia after the procedure!! All fine though and we'll find out tomorrow if any of them have fertilised. Will keep you posted.

belly fantastic news that you got 6! That's def made my mind up to go there, just wish their waiting list wasn't so long. Fingers crossed you have a lot fertilised. Are you going for a 3 or 5 day transfer?

ari I think I would pretend the bleeding was severe and phone Epu.

brown what an awful experience, I have heard that hydroxy can cause blurred vision too.

sue it should be out of your system by thurs/fri at the latest.

brown your story had me wincing

bellyd thats great, fingers crossed for you

ari I think its shocking that you local EPAU won't help you, I agree with sue re the 'bleeding'

Well work is manic and we have some right loopy people to look after, I have a scan tomorrow morning, i'm a bit scared that things might not be progressing as it should but have to say the symptoms are back with a vengeance.

buzzy good news the symptoms are back. I th

I think you will be fine tomorrow but will be thinking of you.

Buzzy really good luck for your scan today.

Ari thinking of you today too. Hope you get some conclusive answers either way so you are no longer in limbo.

hey ladies, just to say that there is a baby and heartbeat at this stage, MW was a bit doom and gloom to start with but the sonographer was great
ari how are things with you

Oh fantastic buzzy, so so pleased you had a good scan! Do you want me to send on that hydroxy now? :)

Thanks ladies - blood taken, so waiting for results. Crazy though it sounds I'm hoping my hCG has started coming down, as I started bleeding properly this morning. If it comes down, then it's "just" a miscarriage; if it's still going up then we're facing ectopic. You can see why I'm hoping it's coming down, an ectopic is the last thing I want to have to deal with.

On another topic entirely, going back to awkward OHs (although I do appreciate it may just be mine), he's currently completely focussed on going on holiday in July and spending more money than I want to on a villa (when we could get a really nice apartment for a lot less). It's slowly dawning on me that his and my priorities in life seem to be a world apart - we've already been on holiday once this year with our friends, he is due to go on holiday again late October (he always goes away for a week with his friends surfing, has done for many years), and I really need to be saving as much money as I can right now. I kind of understand that I'm going to be the one to pay for another IVF cycle, I know he won't want to be spending any money on it although he has paid out some for meds this time, but I am going to have to pay half of this holiday too so I want to spend as little as possible on it. It's really frustrating me that he feels holidays are more important than saving my DD from being an only child (she has no cousins or anyone anywhere near her age so is completely alone, family-wise), but I don't want to spark a huge argument. I haven't actually said I intend to do another cycle - somehow - and I think he feels this is it, enough is enough. I did say when my mum offered to pay for one cycle of IVF that I wanted to be able to do two cycles, and then if they didn't work, that would be it, I would give it up. But I think he feels this one cycle has cost so much now that we won't be doing any more. I'm really not sure how to tackle this; I am not made of money and I've spent a lot over the past two months on meds, scans, tests etc. If I broach the subject he's likely as not to just say right, we aren't doing anymore, probably bringing up the old "I'm too old" card again (he's used that before) and the "we can't afford another child" (ditto).

Sorry, whinge off, just wanted to rant a bit, it's really frustrating me that we seem to want completely different things right now.

Oh hell .. this just gets worse. Had my hCG results back (the lab were great and rushed it through for me) and it's gone up again - from 849.9 to 1169.0 in 47 hours. That, with the bleeding this morning, almost certainly points to ectopic. Damn :(

Great news buzzy. Remind me where was this IVF cycle was it ZW? Was it DE I can't recall.?

Ari I feel for you. We all do. Couple of questions before trying to answer you. 1- this DE cycle why would the genetics issue come up is it because you used our OH sperm? I think it was. So what are your thoughts on Donor embryo? I know is prob not what you want but you could have a damn good chance of carrying to term?

If OH isn't being supportive about another round there is probably a view from him that with the genetics situation then the likelihood of success if even lower and sees it as more money down the drain. It kind of puts you in a different camp where, as you said your main motivation at this stage is to try to provide a sibling for your daughter. It seems like you may as well go full force and go down exploring the DEmbryo route with Penny especially if you are going to be funding etc yourself? I know it isn't that easy and if OH really was against another child that wasn't biologically his then you have to really look at the stats and the odds I suppose.
We don't know you guys in real life so is easy to spat out advice on a keyboard but do you in your heart if hearts think those embryos failed because they weren't good enough quality or not enough immune-suppressant medication or just because of the genetics match thing?? I know we'll never know for sure but you know your body can carry a child as you have one, so it isn't an anatomical issue. You can be a mother again. Not sure if I'm barking up the right tree but just kicking off some food for thought.

Sue - yep 10 or 11 days until 250mg or 600ul out of my system. I totally forgot id done it last month and tested WAY to early.

I'm seeing my Hammersmith nhs guy this afternoon so hopefully I'll get a date for IVF. Hoping end July.

Got gonal F in fridge for next cycle after this one. This one is Chinese herbs and acupuncture all the way. My temperature is more stable to hopefully a reflection on my hormone levels.

Pebbles how r u?

Oh and choccy - you r quiet ? Did you get a bfp again?

Buzzy great news
Ari you're in my thoughts what a roller coaster for you :(
Duggs hope your appt goes well
Waving to all x
Got my nhs hysteo appt through for July 16th not under anthestic! Will they know I've had it already? Umm do I go for the biopsy or to see prof quenby umm still debating x

Well ladies I decided to take your sage advice and rang my EPU, more to see what they thought than anything. Thank God the staff nurse I spoke to was really nice and really sympathetic, she's told me to come in tomorrow morning (with my list of hCG levels) for a scan and if it's looking like ectopic they'll handle it all from there. She also said if I start getting any sharp pain (I do have some discomfort on my left-hand side, but that could be anything, right?) I'm to go straight to A&E. So at least that's saved me £80 and puts me in the right place if anything needs doing further.

duggs I honestly believe it's the DQa match thing - yes, it was donor egg fertilised by OH - and that my immune system just killed them off because of it. Well, possibly killed 2 of them off, possibly the third is in a tube right now! I would have to look at double-donor/donor embryo next, yes - I think this round has proved that even with the hardest-hitting immune meds my immune system is stronger, and that I'm never going to be able to carry a child that is genetically OH's. He knows that's the problem, I have been telling him my thoughts as this has progressed (not that he ever comments much, so I never know what he's feeling). I don't know how he would feel about having a baby that isn't genetically his, but at the moment, I think he would throw another objection up now that the danger of an ectopic has raised its head. I think this has scared him - and I really don't blame him for this, but I also don't want him to use it as an excuse for not doing another IVF.

I wonder, if it is ectopic and I have a tube removed, can I ask them to remove both? I want to be able to avoid any chance of further natural pregnancies anyway, since they will always miscarry; I had always planned once we'd stopped trying for a baby (whether it's because we are lucky enough to get one, or because we just give up) I would look into having my tubes tied or whatever it is you do! So I wonder if they would remove both, if they have to remove one anyway?

Good luck with seeing your Hammersmith guy this afternoon duggs, but even better luck with the herbs & acupuncture - if it can put your body back in balance, that's got to help!

mel Are you going for an NHS hysto, even though you've already had one? Can't help you with the Prof Q debate unfortunately, I guess if it gives you something you want to know then it's worth it and if not, then it's not? Are you still planning to get other testing done, Dr Gorgy or somewhere?

Yes choccy I was wondering if you'd got a BFP too, since you've gone quiet again ... :) Let us know how you're doing!!

Good luck for your appointment Duggs.

Ari glad you got someone helpful at your EPAU. Sorry you are having dilemmas with your OH. It is all so hard isn't it.

Buzzy good news on your scan - hope you feel as reassured as poss.

Well, the embryologist called to say 3 eggs had fertilised, which is great. Had warned DH that 50% would be duffers, but if they develop ok overnight we should be set for ET on Friday. Not enough for CGH array but we knew that was a long shot. So far so good.

Excellent belly - why won't they do aCGH on three eggs though, just out of interest? I thought the idea was to check chromosome viability, I didn't know you could only do it if you had more eggs?

ari, in the early stages of an ectopic they can use a drug, can't they? (And presumably this is early as most people with an ectopic aren't in the position of having their hCG tracked.) So even if the worst came to the worst, you might not lose a tube? I wouldn't make any rash decisions re removing any more tubes than you have to. Unlikely, I know, but what if in 6 months time you read about a new treatment designed to treat exactly your problem?
I really feel for your need to create a sibling for your DD; my DS has two cousins and I'm never happier than when they are together. It's like they are the sisters he never had. But they live far away and being a sociable child, I know he is lonely to some extent, or feels a deficit in his life, no matter how many friends he has.
Good luck Duggs, and brilliant news Buzzy.

they can, yes, you can use methotrexate. But ... that can have quite a harsh impact on your system and can takes months for your body to come back to normal. The 'guru' on Fertility Friends, Agate, herself took methotrexate for an ectopic and it was a year before she was then able to do another IVF cycle. She tried IVF cycles 6 months after taking it, and nothing would implant - it was believed to be the after-effect of the methotrexate. I absolutely cannot wait that long - OH will definitely say he's too old if we leave it another year.

Yes, you've hit the nail on the head there brown - my DD is a very sociable child and she's really unhappy that all of her friends have someone for themselves and she has no-one. Tears me apart :(

Brown it sounds like you have had a mare with nhs, they really are so crap sometimes!!! Hope the blurring rights itself.

Gransol I know how you feel about taking another load if humira when your levels don't get retested and I had the same dilemma. In the end I just thought I gave come this far and had bought levels down do the chances are it will bring the levels down further.

Ari you poor thing you are really going through it at the moment! Are you still working at the mo? Good that you can get scanned at the epau and will hopefully not be ectopic but will at least see what is going on.

I don't know what to say re your oh other than telling him how you feel about everything.....probably best to get current situation sorted in case it causes a row as you will need his support.

Whispered congrats Buzzy

Great news Belly and I wish you lots and lots if luck for Friday.

Duggs let us know how your appointment goes, I sent back my form to Care (took a looong time to fill in with all my history, ran out oif room!) on Monday so hoping for an appointment soon so I can get going with the ivf.