Gunman on the run in Tyneside

[StealthPolarBear]

here

why 'abuser', not just abuser CU?

No expert - or just as much an expert as most MN on this thread !

Different views = different life experiences .

why 'abuser', not just abuser CU? - ok just absuer then . I think you may reading too much into it all .- obviously have too much time on your hands .

if police officers are frustrated by dealing with domestic violence, perhaps they should contact Womens' Aid or Refuge and find out a bit more about how abusers work and what they do to their victims and how those victims might respond?

Edam
I am fully aware of how abusers work and how victims respond thank you. I think you will find that independent DV workers also feel frustrated when despite their best efforts a victim will go back to their abuser. It is obviously a very complex matter and often depends on victims own upbringing, what they have been conditioned to expect etc etc.

I agree with Dittay though that the sentences for DV are appalling. It is getting better but too slowly such as applying for restraining orders on conviction for DV which is becoming more common. At least if the abuse continues it is a straight breach of the order.

Indpend

I feel sorry for Samantha in that she is always going to be known as Moat's ex girlfriend - that label will stay with her for the rest of her life.

I can't agree with CU that she shouldn't have told him in prison. She has the right to finish her relationship at whatever time she feels she can cope with it -for her it was while he was in prison. No way is this her fault....

You know what you lot are a blood thirsty bunch of know it alls.

He had a loaded gun pointed at his own head no the police, the police are only supposed to shoot people as a last resort, when they are in danger which they where not, they where speaking to him and the family wanted to speak to him and where refused, if one of your relatives went nuts would you be happy with him being killed or would you want him to get help?.

Who the hell is saying he is a hero, such stupid blinkered idiocy, he was a victim same as everyone else, failed by the system that let him out of prison when he was mental where are the safe guards that are ment to stop nut cases being released on to the streets.

So he killed people and got killed himself whoopy do all praise the police for murdering a "evil" killer.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Legend it all may well be, to spend 4 days on the run like that, it's bound to be remembered and referred to in the future.

Murdered by the police, Ryoko? .

Bit obsessed by this aren't you?

Dittany _ I am saying how frustrating it is when victims go back to their abusers when you pull out the stops to help - read the posts - other have said that so go and have a nag at them.

Moat would have harmed her anyway the way he was no never a good time to tell him it was over . If he didn't do it , because authorities kept him in prison , then he was the type that would have got someone else to do it.

And I have never said it was her fault - HE WAS AT FAULT !

It will no doubt all come out in the enquiry and probably the history between Moat and his girlfriend , as no doubt there will be associates of both ready to sell the story to papers - or I am wrong in having that view aswell ?

I am really sorry that what I have said doesn't fit into your nice little boxes of feminism, DV etc

"Typical police woman-hating, woman-blaming attitude. I suppose it helps to stay in with the boys in the force though, who have double the rates of DV than the normal population. You should think about who you were siding with. "

Well my response to that - No I dont have to think about who I side with - do you wantt me to side with feminist , man haters - as you tend to make alot of assumptions - the first one being that you though I was a man - as how could a woman dare have that opinion !

I am a woman with my own mind and will not conform to the expectations of what you and other feminists think I should behave or think .

guy has a gun to his own head and they shoot him with a tazer, it's not suicide is it.

The police anyway they are too trigger happy and are never brought to account in this country, the Jean Charles de Menezes case, that old guy walking home with a table leg in a plastic bag, the paranoid guy round here who called the police in the first place, the guy who just happened to have a car the same colour and type as the drug dealer they where after.

I'm insensed by the sensationalism of all this bad guy goes on the run shooting people then shots himself the end, thats so hollywood.

Perhaps more people would be calling for the system to be changed if it was reported as mentally unhinged guy released from prison despite threats, mentally unhinged person kills people, mentally unhinged person gets tazered by police while threatening to kill himself.

"he was a victim same as everyone"

This would be funny if it wasn't so stupid and offensive to the actual victims. You know, the people who were shot by this violent thug?

CaptainUnderpants - feminists are man haters? Really?

Ryoko, some seriously distorted thinking there based on the hatred of the police rather than any coherent thought.

You know Ryoko, bringing Menezes and the guy carrying the table leg up in this context is pretty bloody offensive, as well as distorting the issues.
Menezes and the guy with the table leg never stood a chance and, more to the point, they had not murdered anyone and were not carrying weapons in the first place, unlike Moat.

Moat had threatened to kill police, he had ample chance to put his gun down, and he did not do so. I don't think it's bloodthirsty to think that his death was his own fault.

I think mentally ill people need help not killing and this could have all been prevented in the first place if the system worked.

The police could have used a flashbang and disarmed him if they wanted to.

"He had a loaded gun pointed at his own head no the police"

Only because he had dozens of guns pointing at him and knew he'd only have had to wave his in the direction of the police and they'd open fire in a heartbeat.

The only reason the gun was pointing at his own head is because he didn't have anyone else to point it at. No girlfriends or innocent blokes, or copper sitting in cars minding their own business at traffic lights.

This bloke had threatened to kill as many police as he could, as well as threatening to target members of the public.

Once they found him with the gun, they should have told him to put it down and when he refused they should have shot him instead of piss-arsing around for six hours.

What exactly is he a victim of? Millions have people don't have fathers. Millions of people have partners who don't want to be with them any more. They don't become cocaine snorting, steroid swallowing bullies, who take people down dark alleys and beat the crap out of them for daring to glance in the direction of their girlfriends. They don't beat up their 9 year old daughters. They don't take sawn off shotguns and shoot people.

"I don't know if this has been mentioned, but I was at a service station today getting petrol and the Sun headline said 'moat's girl....' - I didn't see the rest of it, and I know this is the Sun and all but I was horrified to see his ex-girlfriend referred to as that (I'm assuming that's who they meant.) She didn't belong to him, plus she had ended it with him. I know it was just a headline and they have limited space, but it made me sick. She isn't his possession"

You assumed wrong. They were talking about his daughter.Perhaps read the article before judging it and certainly before recounting your own assumptions.

A victim of the system, he was in prison, he had made threats while in prison about what he was going to do if they released him, it's another case of a mentally ill person being released when they shouldn't have it happens time after time, the system failed everyone involved.

Is it bollocks, Ryoko......victim indeed! So all domestic violence merchants are victims are they? All murderers mentally ill? We all have choices about how to behave. Stop making excuses for him.

So you think perfectly sane people go out on killing sprees do you, you think perfectly sane people commit suicide.

Stop attributing rational thinking to those incapable of it.

that's an interesting argument Ryoko.
So if you are by definition mentally ill if you commit suicide or a killing spree, what about committing domestic violence? Domestic violence ending in murder? What about killing a relative for an inheritance - can you do that and be sane? Where do you draw the line?

Don't put yourself down Ryoko, I think you are perfectly capable of rational thinking .

We still have choices, mentally ill or not. Otherwise you are allowing every person with a mental illness never to be responsible for their actions. Get real and don't be so insulting.

Victim of the system?? He was exploiting the system and exploited it right up to the moment he topped himself. He was a police informer for years and managed to avoid many prison sentences as a result prior to THE TIME HE WAS FINALLY JAILED FOR BEATING UP A NINE YEAR OLD!

I don't deny he was a nutjob but how 'the system' is to blame for that I don't know. I rather think the coke and steroids he shovelled down his throat might have had summat to do with that.

The prison had no power to detain him and the police never acted on the tip off. They should get a severe bollocking for that .. but that still doesn't make him a victim of the system.

What you are saying is that perfectly sane people don't go out on killing sprees, so therefore they are mentally ill and can't be atrributed with rational thought. Fair enough .. but how in hell does that make them victims of the system? Are all mentally ill people 'victims of the system' or only self-obsessed, control freak bullies who beat up kids and women and shoot people?

sethstarkaddersmum

Anyone who disregards the lives of others and is capable of killing in any many other then self defense is suffering from some form of psychosis IMO.

inability to show empathy or regard for the lives of others is a classic trait of mental illness.

He was in prison, they should have assessed his mental state and not released him.

Even if they didn't think he would kill anyone he was still clearly a dangerous person, the whole point of prison is to keep dangerous people off the streets.