Gunman on the run in Tyneside

[StealthPolarBear]

here

Just to wade into the debate

The police and courts need to take DV a lot more seriously. If some random bloke off the street unknown to a woman, was to beat the shit out of her, or financially ripped her off, or calling her a worthless cunt or whatever, I believe the reaction from the law would be a lot more than what it is. The dynamic of the relationship between an abuser and the victim, stops it being taken as seriously.

'Men' who beat vulnerable women and children seem to me not to be seen as dangerous by the courts and police, as those men who hit other men.

I only hope his ex and her children can find some peace. The fact he is being touted as some anti establishment hero on sites such as facebook, I think is indicative of some groups of people views on abusers of women and children, and is reflective on societies treatment of these victims.

CaptainUnderpants - I can understand your frustration at women who do go back to their abusive partners. Sometimes myself and collegues have put in shitloads of work with the woman, moving women to safety far away, setting up safety measures in the home and community incase he turns up, going through the courts etc etc. Then the women gets back with her abuser, and the whole cycle starts again. It can be soul destroying, but for each one of these cases, there are 10 that have forged a new life for them and their children. Tbh - they shouldnt have to move, safety measures shouldnt have to be put in place, there shouldnt be a chance for the woman to get back together with him, these fuckers should be locked up, and locked down.
Admittedly, I do not fully understand why some women do stay with men like this, but smostly I think that some women have never had a primary relationship with someone, parent or otherwise, that hasnt been abusive. Imagine being subjected for most of your life to mental and physical abuse, it becomes normal to you, why would you expect anything different??

I think Marne's point bears repeating as well:

The whole thing makes me very and .

Sad and angry that this man was allowed to leave prison with no support knowing that he could kill, sad that he killed and injured but also sad that he took his own life leaving children without a father (even if he wasn't a great father).

The best outcome would have been that he handed himself in, served his time for murder and got the help he needed.

I bet it transpires he was mentally ill in some way,(schizophrenic?) and hope it doesn't prevent others seeking help. (absolutely not excusing him btw, just musing)

My thoughts exactly, i think its quite likely he was mentally ill (but i guess you could say that about most murderers), he took on a kind of 'Rambo' roll in his head, he pumped his self full of steroids to make himself look the part, he needed help. Very sad.

I agree Yellowvan, I think you and Marne speak a lot of sense.

Apparently his mother suffered from mental illness. I don't know how this may have effected him but he hadn't seen her for something like 18 years. I saw a clip of his brother o the news and he was very upset by the way things turned out.

None of this is an excuse for his actions towards those he shot but must surely have been a consideration throughout the negotiations.

CaptainUnderpants, your comments are laughable but also very, very scary especially as you are a former police officer (yep, I got the quip about your pension ). Moat's ex gf's mistake was to dump him in prison when he was only in for 12 weeks? Err, what the fuck was she meant to do? Wait, stay with him whilst he beat the crap out of her in the hope that one day he might get banged up for longer?!

Your arguments are so full of holes and ignorance it beggars belief.

TBH i'm not at all surprised that an ex-member of the police force thinks like this.

They're not exactly known for their brilliant training on DV issues, are they? Or indeed the wider question of mysogyny in society.

maybe someone who works for the police sees so many domestic violence incidents that they become de-sensitised to it?

Interview with one of his exes here www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2010/07/12/raoul-moat-revealed-ex-partner-marissa-tells-of-her-yea rs-with-a-monster-115875-22406209/

Despite it all there are still replies in the comments suggesting he's probably quite a nice chap really.

I am shocked that people have left messages at the site saying he was a legend.
I guess that the reporting and media saturation of this case has turned him into some kind of hero!

I think we can safely disregard CU's comments. Predictable comment or not, by CU's own admission she left the force a number of years ago a displays an attitude towards DV that officers a number of years ago would have held.

The police do take DV seriously, the courts don't.

People beggar belief sometimes.

this man is not exactly hard to judge. It is not like people coming out and saying 'John Lennon beat his wife' or 'Michael Jackson was a paedophile' and we have to take their word - he was rampaging round the country shooting people.

I can imagine some people see this as heroic though.

'I am shocked that people have left messages at the site saying he was a legend'

Who are we to judge, we didn't know him and we didn't know his ex, yes he may of abused her, he may have been mentally ill, he may have raped her but we don't know that, we only have his ex's word on that and she could be lying. TBH i don't think we will ever know the truth. I think some people are too trusting and believe everything the hear in the press, i tend to not trust anything i see in the press.

I believe he was mentally ill, love attention (he got this by taking steroids to make him self look the part), maybe he had no control over his anger (he needed help for this but the prison system let him down). When he was released he should have had more support (in the way of counceling and should have been kept away from his ex), i know this is not always possible.

Just such a sad story.

I just heard on the news he was tazered well thats not killing him self is it, what do you think happens when you zap a guy with a gun to his own head, thats murder by the police (yet again).

No doubt the police will not be called to account again or anyone else for that matter, none of it needed to happen, they should have looked at his mental well being before releasing him in the first place, the system fails yet again.

Oh for Christ's sake Marne.

'Marissa, who awoke vomiting blood, staggered into the street and was taken to hospital after the police were called.
But later that night Moat sent a friend to the ward to persuade his frightened lover to drop charges and agree to talk to him.
Marissa said: ?I was a total mess and too scared to say no.
?The police begged me not to drop the charges saying they didn?t want to see me on a coroner?s stretcher but I was too scared, in the end I agreed to talk to him.'

yes of course she may have made the whole thing up

Even if I take on board everything you say Marne, the undisputable truth is that this man shot 3 people, one at point blank in the back of head.

Not the stuff of legends in my book.

I'm not saying he is a Legend , i'm saying the system (law) has let him and his ex down. He should not have been allowed near her and in an ideal world the choice of dropping charges should have been taken out of her hands. Sending him to prison for 5 months was a total waste of time, he should have had a longer sentence and got help to control his thoughts and his anger, if he was unsafe to be let out in public he should have remained inside or somewhere where he could be kept an eye on. I'm not saying that this man was no evil and didn't deserve to be locked up for murder, i just think it is a shame that it ended with him taking his life, he should have served time for what he had done. I just don't believe everything i read or see in the press.

but why are you so sceptical of his ex's account Marne? You don't have to believe everything you read in the press but why pick on that element to disbelieve when there would have been witnesses her injuries?

Maybe it because i have been there, i was beaten by an ex when i was 17, the papers got hold of my story and they made it sound 10x worse then it was (got it totally wrong), papers write what they want people to hear (what sells papers), yes she might be telling the truth but i am always wary of the press.

I'm not trying to be a nice person, i am just me. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Can I please put forward the view that DV is treated very differently from the way CU has portrayed. I have been in the police for 16 years and have seen massive leaps in teh right direction There is much more training given and the triggers for victims and offenders is much more widely known.

My only point is that it can be very frustrating even as a caring and sensitive police officer when a DV victim retracts and will no longer take the case forward even if you understand the pyschology behind it. Not a defence but cops are human too. Even if a victim retracts the police and CPS will still continue with the case if there is supporting evidence which is a massive step forward.

"murder by the police"

Honestly, what a load of nonsense.

If the police wanted to 'murder' him they could have simply shot to kill.

They have made some pretty big mistakes I would say - number one being not taking the threat against Samantha Stobbart seriously enough and providing police protection.

Raoul Moat was an evil, violent bully who terrorised women and children and has shot three innocent people, one fatally. The other two will likely be permanently scarred.

I'm going to save my sympathy for the people who deserve it.