Drug addicts paid to be sterilised

[MarthaQuest]

In today's Guardian

I thought I was left wing, but I found myself agreeing with most of this article.

What do you all think?

Doesn't 'rehabilitiation' mean integrating back into your community?

I KNOW that rehab centres work for withdrawal, but not for cleaning up lifestyles. That needs more funding, and more appropriate targetting.

I don't know if I've always felt this way, but recent interactions with 'the helping services' has led me to understand to a degree the level of complexity that these things entail.

Struggling with a disabled ds, and calling on SS, has left me paranoid, anxious, suffering from stress and self-medication because I am now too scared to go to my GP. If I had an addiction problem there is NO WAY on earth I would ever 'seek help' in the current system, even if I was desperate to give it up.

toc is saying that it would seem that rich drug addicts are still allowed to have babies, but poor ones aren't!

ISNT - when she first started talking about poverty and people with AIDS I assumed she was still talking about drug addicts with these added complications - was extremely to find out she wasn't.
Not sure where I stand on the ethics of money for long term contraception...I am in two minds about this.

yes that's it star.

The rich drug addicts

a) won't be targetted - as it would appear that they only target "poor" areas

b) if they were targetted they're not going to be swayed by £300 or whatever as they'll have plenty of money in the bank/other resources to fund their habit.

A poor vulnerable addict is much likely to see £300 and think "my next couple of fixes" as they won't know where the next is coming from than someone with money in the bank.

MQ they wouldn't target the men as it''s the addicted women who are responsible (in a physical rather than moral sense) for giving birth t addicted babies. They are als much mre likely to be respnsible for parenting that baby.

toc, i d understand your argument but if they target poorer women and can stop some babies being born addicted, is that not good?

and I am talking about contraceptives, nt sterilisation

I don't know if that is comparable is it SOV?

But statistically the withdrawal porgrammes that remove you from your immediate 'addict community' do prove to be the most effective, SOV

It is also up to that individual to stay away from the people who will drag him back into addiction. You can't force a 40 yr old heroin addict to give up a lifestyle has has had for 25 years though, that's the hard part, which is why I don't believe rehab is necessarily better within an addicts community.

mrsruffalo

you posted this

"More than the gov I think it is down to familes and upbringing, individual circumstances, which is why forced birth control is again, a very good idea for those who are too irresponsible to give their children a good start in life "

That was the entirety of your post, I am not cutting anything out.

I want to know what your selection criteria are for the women that you think should be forcibly sterilised. How are you choosing people for the procedure?

Oh, i see.

Like i said i don't know what the answer is, but i can see why this has been thought of, because in theory it could work.

I have fairly limited knowledge of drug addicts, but my mother was addicted to valium when she had me and from all accounts (family around at the time) it was not pleasant. My mother has been pretty much on one drug or another most of her life and has had many abortions because of this. I think in her younger days she would probably have gone for contraceptive injections(or similar) if there was a cash incentive.

So, like i said my experience is pretty limited, but from what i have seen it is worth looking into iyswim?

so it's still ok for the rich drug addicts to have babies so long as we stop the poor ones.......

actually....
if all these women are happy t be sterilised or use long term contraceptive, if they realise it would be best fr them not to conceive at present, well why aren't they already??

I also still want to know what you meant when you said that middle class alcoholics weren't reproducing.

Saying "you seem angry so I don't have to explain what I mean in my posts" is a bit feeble TBH.

anyhow - am not being rude - but am going to hide the thread.

I should by now know to stay off drug related threads

N it's not OK toc, but better some than none iyswim
but if yu read my last post yu'll see i've started to mve to the other side of the fence anyway
and my o is sticking

I hadn't heard about this but I think it is a disgusting idea

it's almost like half-executing a person - utterly rejecting and cold - "we don't want people like you to reproduce"

I just don't believe in binning people, never have and never will

Sorry I meant what are your selection criteria for those who are to be forced to have birth control devices fitted. Not sterilised.

If these women are so happy to do it then why aren't they already? I'd imagine mst FPCs would be glad to sort out contraception for a drug addict and there'll be loads of publicity etc. So if that's the case, I agree with those saying the money is changing their mind, which is not a good thing

oooh toc a date? Why do you have to start getting ready now? Are you an ugly minger?

Looking at the article again, it does seem that it is mainly women who are being targeted, although in the first paragraph she offered a young man a vasectomy, which misled me.

Seems unfair and wrong IMO. Oh I don't know what I think any more after reading all these posts!

I don't think it is better than none actually >> as otherwise you're saying "YOU are worth less because of your social and financial status".

What sort of message would that send to people brought up in those areas, and caught up in that lifestyle - that they don't matter as much because of where they come from (geographically and socially)

I don't like the idea (although see your post that you're starting to hop onto the fence anyhow - hope you sort your "o" out - have you got crumbs stuck down it? - I'm always getting baccy stuck in my shift key )

I was describing the world that drug addicts are born into.
I was explaining why I don't believe that a child's upbringing is totally the governments responsibility, but more the responsibility of the parents of that child, which is why, if a parents is say, a violent drug addict, it may be better to pay them to have a coil fitted, or the pill or some other contraceptive device.

yes Star - I am a very ugly minger .

No - I need to stat tidying now - we're coming back here after we've been out for dinnner......and while he may have graciously stepped over the clothes/toys/crap on the floor to sit on the sofa on our first date I don't want him to think I live like this all the time .

Plus I need to find an opportune moment to have a shower......need to time it right so that the DS's are settled doing something so they don't start fighting/trash the house while I'm in it.

but Greensleeves, isn't it equally disgusting for a drug addicted mother to have 13 addicted babies, without any incentive to stop?

of course it is, but I don't feel that brutalising people by paying them to undergo an assault is an answer

I'm afraid I am rather boring, I think education, practical support and more education are the way forward - it's not a quick fix but it does change lives.