Drug addicts paid to be sterilised

[MarthaQuest]

In today's Guardian

I thought I was left wing, but I found myself agreeing with most of this article.

What do you all think?

It will never happen. Im done with my family, and a bit broke. Are they going to pay me too? (Being pedantic, but you get my point) And tbh, what do you think drug addicts are going to spend this money on? I'll give you one guess

Well, I read about it few days ago and was quite but today I read on BBC a horrible story about another toddler having been given methadone by his drug addict parents (she died, 14 mo girl) and hmm...frankly...perhaps not such a bad idea after all.

I think it's an extremely cynical, bleak view to take, personally, and I'd worry about where it would lead. What next? Sterilise smokers, people who drink whilst pregnant, people on the social services 'at risk' register?

Something about the whole idea doesn't sit well with me. Paying drug addicts just gives them more opportunity to end up killing themselves with drugs. Why not spend the money actually helping these people rather than giving them money and, basically, throwing them in the dirt.

I feel a lot for the children born addicted, underweight and a part of that lifestyle but I also feel for the mother and the men. I don't feel that it is a responsible answer to the problem of drugs.

Ummmmmm....It does make me feel uncomfortable.

But, if the people consent to it then they consent. It's not forced on them. Unlike being born to a drug addicted mother, which is forced on newborn babies.

True but then what about smokers or women that drink during pregnancy? Isn't that also forced on a newborn?

But to what extent are they actually consenting? They would be seeing the carrot of drug money dangled before them and presumably snap it up. I can see that the fewer children born to addicts the better, but giving money is just an appauling solution. But then, I can't think of a better idea either

I'm not referring to the sterilisation angle btw, just the long-term contraception one.

But is it informed consent if they are influenced by the drugs they are taking?

You're right, JodieO, but the effects of taking heroin for 9 months are arguably much, much worse then those of nicotine.
Also those people are unlikely to be good parents, let's be honest here.

Jodie, I'm not commenting on smokers or people who drink in pregnancy, just the article in question.

I think that's what i though was Ok about the program, the fact that it was voluntary. If it was enforced by the state then that would be too far.

But I also though she was right in thinking that she was saving a great deal of human misery by her interventions, both the adults and the unborn children.

It's probably not informed consent but by that token neither is the decision to go ahead and continue with a pregnancy whilst drug addicted.

so why is this thread doing better than mine?

Anyway I think it's pretty hideous, although being born addicted it utterly tragic.

No, I'm not passed judgement either withorwithout but that would be the next logical question if this were to become common no? Like someone further up said, where would it stop?

I also agree that it isn't really consented if the person agreeing to it are under the influence of drugs and addicted.

Winnny of course, and I agree, I'm just playing devil's advocate and stating what could be the next step.

I dislike it in the extreme. Many of these addicts are young women at their most vulnerable. If you offer them money they may well consent out of desperation for their next fix. But sterilisation is permanent, and drug addiction needn't be. Many addicts will come off drugs and stay clean.
What if a young woman wants drug money gets herself sterilised, then a few years later comes of drugs, meets a husband she adores, and then wants to start a family? She's screwed. It's preying on vulnerable women.
However, I would feel a bit better if you were paying them to have a contraceptive injection that lasts say a year. Because that is temporary.
I also agree that it is a dangerous path to start walkng down, remembering that Hitler forced most mentally ill people to be sterilised, and I think other 'undesirables' as well, not sure where drug addicts stood then. I will find out.
I think the consent for this procedure would not be proper consent because addiction changes your state of mind, and I don't think that many addicts would be in a position to fully understnd and consent, although I imagine some would be.
Lets spend the money on more services to get people off drugs, or at worst on long term contraceptive injections, not sterilisation

I really do doubt that this particular organisation would have the scope and influence to start targeting smoking and drinking women.

This isn't a state sponsored programme, it's an independent initiative. I can't see how they would have the scope to begin to spread into those other areas.

Aspiegal I agree with you 100% that permanent sterilisation is not right, for exactly the reasons you mention.

I heard this woman interviewed a while back on radio 4; she is quite an extremist but I think she is reacting to some pretty extreme symptoms of drug riddled communities. I didn't really like her or her ideas.

I have mixed feelings about the idea of sterilisation. Of course it is far better for pwople with drug problems not to have children if they can't look after them or undertake to bring them up drug free but I agree with aspiegal that often the targets of these £££ schemes are very vulnerable and would regret their decision profoundly later on in life. Sterilisation is irreversable afaik.

'people' of course

another sad case to support the original article

I think the problem is that these people are being told they are not good enough to be parents, and will never be good enough to be parents.

That takes away their hope and their humanity - and I believe will only lead to more destructive behaviour.

Is it because of my name? not literary enough?

The background about her past is very interesting. I imagine she's had quite a troubled time.

Belgo, I agree, the permanence of sterilisation does say that.

Long term contraception though, is the lesser of two evils for me, if the choice is that or a child growing up in those circumstances.

Of course, there must be some drug addicts who get clean precisely because they're expecting or have a child.

ra if you want people on your thread, why not link to it?