Drug addicts paid to be sterilised

[MarthaQuest]

In today's Guardian

I thought I was left wing, but I found myself agreeing with most of this article.

What do you all think?

More than the gov I think it is down to familes and upbringing, individual circumstances, which is why forced birth control is again, a very good idea for those who are too irresponsible to give their children a good start in life

mrsruffalo - if you're an addict - then it doesn't matter where in the country you go - it's not hard to find a dealer.

The fact that not everyone in areas where drug dealers are to be found (ie just about anywhere these days) are drug addicts kind of suggests that they have learn to live "happy well adjusted" lives without having to resort to the drugs.

People who are addicts need to learn how to live those happy well adjusted lives wherever they live........because they could move to the other end of the country - but if the factors that got them ending up with drugs in the first place aren't dealt with they'll just find a new drug dealer and carry on.

When people think about drug addicts, they seem (as this american woman does) to actualyl think of poor, underclass, possibly criminal, drug addicts.

The hordes of drug addicts in the middle and upper classes are randomly ignored.

Saying "ooh these drug addicts are terrible something needs to be done" is actually shorthand for saying that something needs to be done about a certain type/class of person. A person who is trapped in poverty.

The cash incentive says it all. More wealthy people will not be tempted by that. They will go on to have children that will be every bit as affected as teh children of these poor people. They will just be able to cover it up better. But it's the poeple in poverty that people like this woman target.

This is all so so dodgy.

I agree that her comments about AIDS and African women are wrong headed to say the least.

Thinking about it some more, I think it would maybe be better if Male addicts were targeted more than female ones, mainly because the op is apparently more reversible and men obviously have the potential to father many more children.

But people seek out like minded people, with similar backgrounds. The problems that go with addiction in the poorer classes are linked with self-esteem and aspirations. You just won't get anywhere pulling them out of their circle of friends and making them lonely. NEW friends will be hard for them to make and the stuggle to will set them back with their addiction, as will being lonely, and NEW friends to have any chance at success will most likely be those similar to their old friends.

It isn't like you can pull them out of their deprivation and make them middle-class, give them middle-class friends, a job, a house, some hope and a decent education. That would probably work, eventually, but it isn't possible. You have to give them the skills to deal with their own life, own problems, and the skills to move from that themselves.

Which is why talking measures for temporary birth control is a good idea isn't it t and f?

It takes the average drug addicts many spells in rehab until they are decide to become clean permanently. Until they do it surely it is better not to bring a child into the world?

ahhh Star put it so much better than I did

Forgot to say mrsruffalo you DO have a point about 'withdrawing' being easier by removing the person from their 'triggers', and there are some stats to show that iirc. However, the long term prognosis for that method is extremely poor.

but they're not talking measures for "temporary" birth control - according to the guardian most female drug addicts opt for the (quicker cash return) sterilisation.

"More than the gov I think it is down to familes and upbringing, individual circumstances, which is why forced birth control is again, a very good idea for those who are too irresponsible to give their children a good start in life "

At what age would you suggest that girls are fitted with contraception, if their backgrounds and histories suggest that they are irresponsible?

I would also like some expansion on this statement: "Middle class alcoholics are not reproducing though are they? "

I have a brother who is 18 months younger than me. We had exactly the same parenting and upbringing. He CHOSE to to spiral himself downwards into drug taking and addiction. I chose to create a good life for myself.

He has had chance after chance, help after help, good money after bad and finally prison. I wish someone would pay him to have a vasectomy because I don't want to deal the mushroom cloud from him producing a child from that damaged body and fucked up mindset.

He cannot look after himself, let alone a wife and child. He is nearly 40 now and mentally ruined by years of drug abuse. No baby deserves that as a father.

"More than the gov I think it is down to familes and upbringing, individual circumstances, which is why forced birth control is again, a very good idea for those who are too irresponsible to give their children a good start in life "

So take young women from troubled backgrounds, and force them to have painful procedures to remove their fertility?

Really?

Sweep the streets for female drug addicts and prostitutes and take them to the hospital and tie them down and remove their fertility?

Go around the childrens homes and inflict painful procedures on the female children found there to render them infertile?

It would just be the girls, as I don't believe that a reversible long-term contraceptive method is currently available for men.

SofV, I live in a community which has a big heroin problem you don't have to keep spelling out the obvious reasons for addiction to me.I see it everyday

The fact is that these rehab programmes are the most effective, and leaving the bad influences around you for a while does help in
rehabilitation.

I would dread trying to make everyone middle class, being working class myself, I don't see middle class as representing all that is good of life and working class all that is bad. Maybe that is why I see it as personal responsibility- you can have addicts going through many different rehab programmes yet still returning to that same old way of life-when does it become personal responsibility?

Me neither, I'mSoNotTelling, which is why I have reiterated many times that sterilisation would be wrong

Imsonottelling, isn't MrsRuffalo talking about birth control as opposed to sterilisation in that quote you keep repeating?

Alouise and I know loads of people who struggled with addictions when they were in their late teens/early twenties, and have gone on to beat their problems, get good jobs, and have close and loving families.

To say that anyone who struggles with an addiction is therefore doomed to a life of addiction and they will never recover is such a terribyl depressing, and incorrect, attitude.

Alouiseq No two children have the same parenting or life choices.

you can also have drug addicts getting out of that life and turning their lives around (while still living in the drug ridden areas) and making fabulous parents/grandparents - as in the case of a women at our church.

Sadly her husband wasn't so lucky after leading that lifestyle of drugs and alcohol, he is in a hospice waiting for death after he messed up his body beyond repair

Oh absolutely I'mSoNottelling, which is why I think temporary birth control would be an ideal solution

When does it become a personal responsibility?

I guess when the person has developed the skills and got the resources to take responsibility for it!

mrsruffalo what test are you applying when you are selecting your candidates for forced removal of fertility?

The sterilisation aside, would a cash incentive not be the way forward for women with an addiction to get contraception?

In the original article it is mentioned about 3monthly injections in Haiti. Could that not be offered here?

It is a fact that many drug addicts turn to theft to help fund their addiction, so by getting paid every 3 months to get an injection that is one less theft they need to commit to pay for their habit?

I am also aware it is mostly the women who are having this aimed at them. I am not sure what the answer is overall.

Hmmm, I think you are willfully misunderstanding me, so until you have calmed down I'll not reply to you for a while I'm SoNottelling

Alice - it is also the poor women who are having this aimed at them, wealthier drug addicts aren't going to be swayed by a couple of £100's......

Sorry Toccata, i don't think i really understand your post.