Drug addicts paid to be sterilised

[MarthaQuest]

In today's Guardian

I thought I was left wing, but I found myself agreeing with most of this article.

What do you all think?

I agree that doctors should be aware that money has been offered.

woman approached

will read thread now

But rehab projects often aren't local at all simply because it is advisable to leave the place where peer pressure may cause relapse.
Addicts are usually sent away from their home town for this precise reason.
It's quite intense, not usually a drop in service at all

mrsruffallo it is very hard to access good quality rehab with proper long term therapy.
We whould fund this as a society because it is looking after our most vulnerable- that is an important thing to do. It also saves money long term and ultimnately is a more humane way of preventing harm to the next generation.

mrsruffalo Now you see, this attitude makes me quite cross. Help is NOT easily available for drug addicts. Millions of poungs ARE spent, but not on programmes that have been shown to work effectively, and like most public sector 'schemes' they change the funding criteria, treatment, management, rules, expectations, with the wind and are under continous scrutiny for cuts.

When an addict is in a position to stop, they need to be grabbed THEN. Not months later, not even days.

Programmes have to be delivered that meet the needs of the individual. Enrollment on a programme is not the same as saying that a person is getting treatment. For most, the bog-standard has no hope of working.

And finally, often drug addicts have got themsleves in the position they have through very difficult circumstance. The drug addiction is very often the least of their worries, and by removing it, but not the rest, you are taking away their only source of escape from a world that is otherwise unbearable.

'Wanting' to stop is just not that simple.

"It's a lump sum for those who choose sterilisation; those who go for less permanent birth control are paid in instalments, as long as they can prove the contraceptive is still in place."

Yikes

No one would disagree that it is an important thing to do, which is why the whole subject of forced contraception has been brought up in the first place

Alouiseq No, there are affluent people with drug problems too, but the difference is that usually these people are not a drain on society. They get 'clean' drugs and very often manage their addiction and live normal lives. These people won't be tempted by £200, so the bottom line is:

If you are a poor drug addict you give up your right to kids, but if you are a rich one you don't. How is that ethical?

and 'being offered help' is a very VERY long way from 'being offered appropriate help'!

I don't know Jodie, I look at this from a situation ethics point of view - if the situation is such that either the addict or the baby has their human rights overlooked, then to me I would rather it were the addict.

And I obviously have different views to you, in that I don't see that this programme inevitably and logically leads to pregnant smokers and drinkers being forcibly sterilised.

"Then she begins talking about women in Africa who have Aids, "My thinking is, why are they having these babies? I'm sorry ? tell me that you don't agree! If you know you have Aids, why are you getting pregnant and having babies that you know are going to have Aids? Babies are suffering. It's preventable.""

Why should the tax payer fund irresponsible behaviour??? The tax payer is not responsible for pee becoming addicted to illegal drugs.

We have enough real problems to deal with without stumping up for stupid lifestyle decisions.

mrsruffalo GOOD rehab centres recongise that the people who become addicts have underlying reasons, and that these reasons have to be addressed, and that teaching skills to deal with their peers is actually as, if not more important than withdrawing.

The BEST programmes occur in the local community as this is the community that the person will return to, if not with the exact same people, certainly the 'type'!

I think they should sterilise people who want to sterilise drug addicts.

Addicts should be given their drugs paid for by the NHS so they can take them clean and safe. Then they can hold down jobs - yes even heroin addicts can hold down jobs - and come off the gear as and when.

This is just idiocy by people who believe the narrative laid down by politicians and their pals in the media that drugs are bad.

Alouiseq The tax payer might not be responsible for these people making the choices they do, but the government certainly is in a vast majority of cases.

according to Project Preventions website it is

"Project Prevention offers cash incentives to women and men addicted to drugs and/or alcohol "

so yes - they're already onto the drinkers....

Yes but I don't see them targetting middle class alcoholics in well to do areas.

This is all about more than drug/alcohol misuse. They are making a whole load of judgements about a whole load of other stuff, to pretend they aren't is nonsensical.

Anyone who thinks this woman talks sense, have you read her comments about africa and aids?

Yes, Sov, I agree that it is a complex problem. My point was that when an addict reaches out there is help availiable. whether it be through a GP, prison, ante natal clinic.

You are right, though, there are complex reasons for them not reaching out (despite wanting to stop) which is why being offered an incentive to use birth control is a good idea(I wouldn't agree with sterilisation though)

"Why should the tax payer fund irresponsible behaviour??? The tax payer is not responsible for pee becoming addicted to illegal drugs. "

Poor, drug addicted people are a consequence of the way we have constructed our society. Thus it is the responsibility of society to try to look after them. And to raise people out of these situations. Rather than trying to exterminate them as a class.

I don't agree that there is appropriate help available either. Reaching out for help can all too often result in no help being received, and a load of additional shit coming down on you. The people in these situations are well aware of this.

Middle class alcoholics are not reproducing though are they?

agree with ImSoNotTelling - good appropriate help is very hard to come by. With often little or not help to tackle the issues which fuel the addiction.

Middle class alcoholics aren't reproducing aren't they?

Of course middle class alcoholics are reproducing. Have I misunderstood your question?

As are middle class drug addicts.

Sorry sov I disagree with you again
Everyone knows that happy well adjusted people with a high self esteem do not, in general, become drug addicts.
I think it is necessary to get away from the community where you know where all the dealers are etc
I won't find that that the rehab centres within a community are more successful actually, there seems to be more success in addicts receiving counselling and group therapy away from the homes/areas where there addiction was formed

maybe not "alcoholics" - but certainly drinking hazardous levels of it on a regular basis here