Man shot dead in Stockwell unconnected to terror inquiry

[QueenOfQuotes]

Just seen a ticker on the BBC website saying that

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saadia, I am even more scared for my slightly Asian-looking dx now, and I really wont be happy when he is in London. I am used to him being regularly stopped by the police "driving while of Muslim appearance" and even being questioned by Special Branch every time he goes through Dover, but now there is the added worry that next time the police decide he looks suspicious, it could be fatal.
I guess you must be feeling a bit the same.

happymum - yes I do and I support the police 100%

how has it the 8 shots come about then?

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"yes, he was shot 5 times, he had to be if they were shooting to kill."

"The man mistaken for a suicide bomber by police was shot eight times, an inquest into his death has heard.

Brazilian Jean Charles de Menezes, 27, was shot seven times in the head and once in the shoulder, at Stockwell Tube station, south London, on Friday.

Det Insp Elizabeth Baker revealed the details at a hearing in London."

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Yes nightynight I am worried. Dh and db both work in the City and are now not taking briefcases to work but clear plastic cases. But this poor guy didn't even have a bag, just a coat.

My concern in this particular shooting is that no-one should be above the law, that is all.

As QoQ said, somewhere along the line someone messed up and they should be held accountable, as they hopefully will be.

The coat thing has bothered me.

Don't they KNOW how 'Asian-looking-people' dress in Summer? My dp had the heating on in June.....

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the whole "he looked asian" thing is leaving a nasty taste in my mouth

"5 times, 8 times, whatever"

perhaps not just "whatever" - we the public have been told that they've been told to shoot 5 times - to make sure they do actually die. Is that what they (the police) have been told, or did the shooter(s)???? fire more shots than they'd been told to?

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HMO2 - it starts at 12:30. My sis might be coming too (mummy23) she will let me know later. I can meet you on Queensbridge or Kingsland Road if you like? I might actually walk rather than drive there!

Poor old K with no front teeth! Still waiting for my K to loose her first!

Well I'm sorry but if the police had been told to shoot FIVE times, and it turns out that the policeman(men? - we don't know as yet whether it was a single gun or two - as 'eye witness' accounts are not always accurate) became 'trigger happy' who knows how it could influence the inquiry.

Policemen are intelligent people - especially armed ones - they know how many shots they've fired - if they didn't they'd be in BIG trouble. You can't risk having armed police who shoot more times than they've been told to

(not that I'm saying that's what happened here - I'm just pointing out that armed police often shoot people - without killing them - and I'm sure we'd hear in the news if they were shooting more than one time).

saadia, this suspicion cant last though surely. There are just too many dark haired men in the UK!

Fio, anyone who "looks Asian" has been targetted since 9/11. It was made official when Hazel Blears said that "Muslim looking" people should be prepared to be stopped more frequently by the police (cow!). Around 12 "Muslim looking" men were held for months and months without trial in Belmarsh jail (I think they are all out now?) under totally unjust laws rushed though after 9/11. dx has been stopped loads of times by the police. We had eggs thrown at our house, and dx was attacked in the street. I could go on.

I never realised how much I loved and took for granted living in a multi-cultural atmosphere though, until 3 things happened inside one year.

1. I lived in a 99% white place.
2. I discovered Nisha Minhas (total rubbish, but funny, and no other novelist writes about my street as well as she does.) 3.the tube suicide bombings happened and suddenly everyone is split apart.

Yes nightynight I do fear for what kind of world my dss will grow up in. Ds1 was born a few months after 9/11 and I was so depressed thinking he would grow up in a world at war with Muslims. Now with ds2, and my dear nephew, just 4 mths I can't help worrying.

I and many others grew up with racism, but I just can't imagine what this new generation will have to face.

nn very sorry to hear about the eggs thrown at your house.

and the attack on dx. Luckily we haven't yet had anything like this happen.

At risk of sounding cruel, the amount of shots really does not matter IMO. They were shooting to kill. To be sure to kill they shot several times. How many times is irrelevent really, it is not as though they were shooting to injure.

My shift has been cancelled agains so I have made it back here!

And the picture of the bomber with New York written on is really frightening. He looks as though he is trying to figure out where he is going as though all things are normal. Evil evil man.

thank you Saadia - I am letting worry get the better of me. It was several years ago, and we were out in the sticks, ie a racist backwater of England, the sort of place where you knew where all the foreigners lived cos there were so few of them.

The government initiative to put multiculturalism behind us, and aim for a new British identity starts to make sense now. I guess someone saw all this coming. I thought in the south east of England, we had that new identity.

mosschops you obviously don't have a son who won't understand police spoken instructions as an adult. That's why I'm particularly interested in what ifs.

HMo2

"It was a mistake, just a mistake, and I think to call the poor officer who made that mistake, a murderer, is really silly. HE IS NOT A MURDERER. He was doing his job."

Yes the policeman who pulled the trigger was probably following order. But is not the mets job to shoot innocent people. When mistakes happen that lead to a death legally people can be held responsible for murder. It's unlikely that will happen in this case but it is possible for that to happen- the law allows for that.

This for example from the Sunday Times

"Two firearms officers are facing a murder investigation after being accused over the shooting of Harry Stanley in 1999. Stanley was shot by SO19 after he was seen carrying what officers judged to be a weapon but was in fact a table leg."

The HArry Stanley case keeps going backwards and forwards, to and from the courts- but point is it is entirely possible for a policeman to shoot someone on duty and be charged with murder. In the same way that is entirely possible for an incompetent doctor to be jailed. Neither scenario happens very often (and obviously shouldn't happen very often), but if people cock up they can be held accountable whoever they are.

Nuhgtnight- I was listening to a top brass policeman on the radio last week saying it was of utmost important that young asian men weren't stopped and searched anymore often than anyone else (including 80 year old ladies). otherwise it breeds resentment.... Obviously what's happening on the ground isn't reflecting what they (officially) want to happen from the top.

Has an imcompetent doctor ever gone to jail for murder though? I'd have thought it more likely to be manslaughter.

Almost certainly Flossam- and I'm sure a policeman would be more likely to be charged with manslaughter rather than murder if they were charged with anything as well. I suspect that's probably only right. My point was that the police aren't automatically right if they shoot an innocent man, and they aren't automatically let off the hook. They still have to answer for their actions and show that they didn't make a balls up and they weren't being incompetent.