Man shot dead in Stockwell unconnected to terror inquiry

[QueenOfQuotes]

Just seen a ticker on the BBC website saying that

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HMo2 I have repeatedly said that the initial error that precipitated the chain of events may have come from above- you don;'t have to have pulled the trigger to be held accountable. However, apparently under English law - the person who pulls the trigger has to justify that they felt under immediate attack and that there was no alternative action that could be taken. I suspect that may be possible to say in this case, it may be- it may not be.

Here we go- again from the Times

"The IPCC said its inquiry into the death would be carried out by its own force of 80 investigators and not by an outside police force, the normal process in high-profile cases.

The inquiry team is likely to submit a report to the Crown Prosecution Service which can decide if any charges are to be brought. If not, a coroner will hold an inquest into the death which could return a verdict of unlawful killing.

Most of the guidelines on police use of firearms have been in force since 1983 after Stephen Waldorf, a film editor, was shot five times in an ambush in Kensington, west London, when he was mistaken for a fugitive gunman. He survived and was awarded £150,000 compensation.

The guidelines allow for a police commander to direct that shots may be fired in incidents such as those involving suicide bombers but do not exempt either the senior officer or the man firing the gun from responsibility.

?To sum up,? say the guidelines, ?a police officer should not decide to open fire unless that officer is satisfied that nothing short of opening fire could protect the officer or another person from imminent danger to life or serious injury.?

The Association of Chief Police Officers (Acpo) said any officer who used such force, including any commander who authorised such force, ?must be able to justify their actions to any subsequent inquiry?."

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"and the police officer who fired those shots can not be called incompetent anyway, it's completely different, he was following orders."

Unless he wasn't following orders properly. I still maintain that the number of shots fired versus numbers of shots they may have been told to fire could come into this.

If the orders were to shoot 5 times, and he shot 8 times - he didn't follow the orders. You yourself earlier said

"I don't know QOQ, no one does, it's pointless keep going over it until we know the facts,imo"

So why not wait until the facts come out before you decalre whether or not the police man (or men) that shot him were imcompetent.

"I am not a racist by any stretch of the imagination but why shouldnt the police stop and search young asian men, that is what they're looking for isnt it."

No - Germaine Lindsay, who carried out the deadliest bomb on the 7th of July was black.

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Mosschops - I've made plenty of points of my own thankyou very much. If you didn't bother reading them that's not my fault.

And I thought this was a discussion/debate???

We don't know what 'colour' the next would be bombers are going to be. there are young white muslims too you know.

And perhaps we should start stopping and searching older asian men too - after all it may not be long before they're involved too.......

Edam, I'm glad you're running with this. You express my feelings! Dinosaur, I am very scared about this acceptance, more so than of terrorists, genuinely, as I feel it will have a much longer lasting effect on living in london and UK society and government. QoQ et al....agree, but don't you think that after nearly 1000 posts we are [thwack] banging [duphhh] our [thud] heads against a brick wall here.

you're either with them or with the terrorists like i said, it's GWB's favourite argument.

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lol sophable - If there's one thing I hate about GWB 'war on terror' it's that 'slogan'

Still confused as to how I'm simply taking people's post and throwing them back at them when I started the thread

"must have missed those posts of yours QoQ! "

Try reading the thread from the start

got to say mosschops, i agree with you.

people are saying- would he have been shot if he was white? if the bombers had been white then yes he would have been shot.but they weren't.

if the bombers had been 80 year old ladies with walking sticks, then i think it would be reasonable for them to search old ladies.

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Intersting quote here

"Nick Hardwick, head of the IPCC, said the commission needs to find out the truth of what happened "to ensure it can never happen again".

He said that "if people haven't acted in accordance with the law and their training" they would be held accountable."

So number of shots fired could come into it.

i'll always shake a proffered hand mosschops...doesn't mean i agree with you!!

Mosschops- the police themselves (or a very senior representative of them) was saying on the radio only last week that it was important that any stop and search was random and that 80 year old ladies were as likely to be searched as young asian men. And also that people knew that that was the situation. The reason the police say that - and know that- is because they have to work in communities and they know what happens when you alienate an entire group.

They were alos saying that the ring of steel around the City works because everyone knows that the cars that are stopped are stopped on an entirely random basis. The person who was being interviewed was very insistent- stop and search has to be random- it must not target a particular group.

"if the bombers had been white then yes he would have been shot.but they weren't. "

But surely you must see how people find that difficult to believe with recent reports about racism in the police force?

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"oh give it up dont turn it into a major personal attack. "

LOL personal attack I the one being accused of not making my own points and simply turning other people's posts round and throwing them back.........

Funny last time I watched a good debate on the TV that was what happened - people 'disected' each others points of view.....

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"QOQ, I really don't see how it makes any difference as to whether the police officer was incompetent or not, the number of shots he fired. That is irrelevant, the man was already dead, does it really matter whether it was 5 or more? "

See my post of 8.22.10pm

"Most of the people willing to be suicide bombers for Al-Queda, are young Muslim men, aren't they? That is a fact. "

No-one is denying that fact. But you do the maths

2 million Asians in the UK
1.8 million Muslims
1 million Sikhs
300,000 Hindu's

Therefore there HAVE to be muslims that are NOT asian.

"just to get to your little sentance on the end!"

Like I said - read my posts - I don't do MASSIVE quotes - I do a small quote like above (so in large threads like this you know who I'm replying to) and usually a resonable sized chunk at the end.

I read ALL the posts which I reply to - not just the bits I feel like reading.