Man shot dead in Stockwell unconnected to terror inquiry

[QueenOfQuotes]

Just seen a ticker on the BBC website saying that

he was South American apparently - they asked him to stop, he ran into the tube station and that was that

I'm sorry peacedove, I think you sre being unfair.
I have worked as part of the emergency services and I honestly believe that unless you can understand the adrenalin rushing through your body in situations like that you cannot make a fair judgement. Labelling it 'trigger happiness' is a gross misinterpretation.

I don't want to get into a row either. The people here are far too sensible for me to want a row with any of them.

But my generalisation about security people is genuinely felt, although in their private lives the security people are very gentle.

And I have met those who are helpful to all, but I have never trusted any security other than the British bobby, and I lost that too when it became too rightwing and racist.

no, but in amongst the generalisations i think peacedove makes a crucial point: one of the things that demarcates a civil society is that those in power and with arms are incredibly careful with how they use them. and if they are to pin a man to the ground and shoot him repeatedly in the back of the head they need to have been reasons to then they had yesterday. i also feel sorry for those that did it. but am angry whatever orders/tone/atmosphere it was that lead them to believe that they could do this and that there would not be grave consequences if they made a mistake.

This is an individual few policemen we are talking about. You cant apply your generalisations to them.

mrsdoolittle adrenalin is just as poor an excuse imo.

sophable, I am sure they realised there would be grave consequences if they did the wrong thing - I imagine they knew almost instantly (when they discovered there were no explosives on him). They normally get suspended straight away and have to wait for the outcome of the inquiry I think (but still not sure if it was a normal policeman or special forces that actually fired).

As for pinning him down - I'm not sure they did that did they? I don't think they've released the complete details.

foxinsocks, the Lawrence inquiry concluded that the police are guilty of institutional racism. Caligula, quite, how would you know they were police if they weren't in uniform?

according to eyewitness accounts he was pinned down and then shot five times in the head.

The point of good training, is that all that adrenalin is channelled and controlled.

fis, the eyewitnesses said he tripped and fell into the tube, 3 of them piled on top of him and one shot him.

The piling on top was brave if he had been a suicide bomber.

These are not just average police men who happen to be given a gun for the afternoon. These are highly trained people. Their training reinforces over and over and over again, what teh rules of engagement are. Getting the right bloody person must surely feature quite highly!

Yes adrenaline must pump like mad, but they are trained to overcome their instincts to just shoot at something just because it moves.

There really isn;t any point dressing it up is there? They shot an innocent person and no matter what the reason was for that it is hard to see it as anything other than a f*ck up!

And they were SAS, not police, there will be no inquiry and an inquest will find justifiable homicide according to an expert on the news.

Or rather, they won't be identified in an inquiry.

I believe the Lawrence murder was in 93 and the final enquiry came out in 99. A lot has happened since then - the police admitted their faults and have made steps to improve. I'm not saying that every single police person is not racist (because I'm sure there will always be exceptions) but I do think things are a lot better than they used to be.

exactly soapbox.

i don't understand why anyone would even want to justify this. no one is saying the police that shot the guy was evil. we're questioning how highly trained armed police/special forces could have made such a huge mistake....

fis, hmm, probably. It's not that long ago though, we're not talking the 50's or anything!

They were watching a block of flats - he came out - they followed him - he went towards the tube station and then it all blew up. Should they have let him go just in case? Should they have tried to arrest him in a street full of people? What if he had had a bomb? It's easy to criticise now.

Come oooon sophable, I can't believe you are posting this. I thought you were a pretty rational, sensible person.
Two weeks ago FOUR bombs exploded in London, on the underground. The country is aghast, absolutely horrifed at the slaughter of innocent lives.
Two weeks later the attempt is made AGAIN, and this time the guys get away, we see them running away. Now the country is in uproar.
Next day, the police on MAJOR alert ask a man, clad in winter clothing who also happened to be under surveillance to stop for police. HE DOESN'T. He runs over the barrier, down the stairs onto a packed train. A split second decision, he could have been VERY dangerous and there were alot of lives at risk.
What do you think they would do?

PL, I am actually finding some of your postings quite offensive. I would have not wanted my DP to take any other action. I was very impressed when civil liberty spokesperson on BBC 24 said that sympathies are with the family of the man - and the policemen (if thats what they were) and their families.

To try and put the fault of this solely on the Police and security is very very wrong and I ask you to consider how we have come to this point again - if there were no suicide bombers there would not be such urgent suspiscion and no need for such drastic action to be taken.

He wasn't under surveillance but he came out of a building where they knew somebody they wanted was. He could have been a decoy bomber. They can't tell!!!

I expect there'll be a lot of discussion about this over the next few days. The pressure to find the bombers must be one of the major things. The paranoia about dark young men with any clothing/ bags which could hide explosives. Who knows what else?

This bloke hadn't been under surveillance. Just the building he'd come out of had been. God. How terrible.

right. so we have two choices here. either let him get on tube and away. or get him on the ground and discharge five shots into his head at point blank range.

and i'm the one being unreasonable?

Let him get on tube with a bomb maybe???

come on, sophable.