Catholic church - time to call it a day?

[Chil1234]

I truly hope that the latest scandals and accusations have hit the catholic church hard or preferably killed it stone dead. If it were isolated incidents or if the problems had been handled considerately, it might be put down to the vagiaries of life or the human condition. If other religious organisations had the same breadth of complaints one might make a faith connection. But it isn't the case.

The catholic church's position of absolute authority, of 'doing God's work', and expecting unthinking obedience, has resulted in apalling corruption and terrible abuse..... from the Magdalen Laundries, the Holly Mount Orphanage, the organisations that shipped children off to terrible conditions in Australia to the cover-ups surrounding abusive priests today. People in my own family have been direct victims of 'pastoral care', having their lives ruined when they most needed help. It's not enough to say that the church does a lot of good work or that there are good people in the organisation... that does not compensate for the instutionalised megalomania and abuse of privilege.

When the Pope visits I, for one, will not be there to greet him. Shame on the lot of them

Marking.

Right Bucharest is it you or the press in Italy who said "be that as it may it is still the Catholic Church"???? And your dp is spot on the Church of Ireland is akin to the Church of England it is joined at the hip. I believe I have read your post correctly you have not read mine correctly! I think you should calm down dear and pour yourself some Communion Wine

@umf you are spot on E de Valera the Republics first president got int bed v.sngly with the Catholic Church in return for a lot of support from them during the Civil War and they became way too powerful and had too much influence in matters of state!

It doesn't mater what degree of obfuscation may or mat not be being used. and can we please rise above the level of "you said this, No I didn't".

The mater concerns the Pontiff and if you don't know he is catholic then you really are not qualified to say much on it.

That is one of the big differences in the scandal in Ireland and over here. THe Cath. church in England simply isn't part of the establishment over here. Catholics are regarded with some suspicion still.

Funnily enough that might have been good news for us--more scrutiny, less social power, less fear of the priests and bishops.

I said it was still the Catholic Church (in my discussion with dp, quoted here) because the item on the news was talking about the latest scandal, Father whatisface, who the Pope had been made aware about. The Tv programme we were watching was implying it wasn't the Catholic Church because it was the "Chiesa d'Irlanda". I knew it was about the Catholic Church (not being either Irish or Catholic I didn't know until this thread that the Church of Ireland isn't the Catholic Church in Ireland.)

My point, probably lost in all this waffle, is that the Vatican itself (and the elements of the Italian media "joined at the hip" with the Vatican) is quite happy, in Italy, for the Church in question to be referred to as the Church of Ireland (which I know now to be not Catholic) in order to distance itself/erect yet another smokescreen as is its wont.

Ps The it in my first sentence above referring to the abuse being carried out.

Right Bucharest! Gotcha now I see the convuluted workings of the Italian press. So sorry for ignorance barb

S'alright, I am fairly ignorant about religion in all honesty...but like to shout at the telly when I see things obviously wrong!

It amazes me that people are still jumping to the Catholic Church's defense.

(It doesn't amaze me that Daftpunk has though)

at Tinnitus's "this guy started out as a Nazi". Isn't that libellous?

And equally at Dittany's "His name even rhymes - Ratzi the Nazi." Although I have come to expect little else of Dittany.

I am reporting those posts.

AFAIK Ratzinger wasn't a Nazi. He was a member of the Hitler youth, but that was compulsory.

More here - doesn't really let him off the hook.

To be fair, I think it is a documented fact that he was a member of the political party referred to as the Nazi.. it is about as libellous as calling David Cameron a Tory.

OH and since MNHQ will doubtless ignore my complaint and pour oil over troubled waters etc, I just want to say grow up Tinnitus and Dittany. You are more than capable of arguing coherently without this childish, extremist mudslinging. And to think Daftpunk is considered the person who makes random prejudiced comments.

He was not a member of the Nazi party. He was a member of the Hitler Youth. There is a difference.

Being coerced into the Hitler Youth does not make a boy a Nazi.

Thanks Bucharest. @Tinnitus I DO think every poster on this thread understands that the Pope is the head of the Catholic Church. I also think that the last Pope John Paul had a lot to do with this scandal. He would brook no dissent to his hard line views, and tolerated no criticism. I never understood the mass hysteria his appearance seemed to evoke and not just with Catholics. I remember saying to some non Catholics how disappointed I was with the man and they were truly shocked. THE MAN WAS NO SAINT IN MY BOOK, I was disappointed by his certain lack of eloquence and he was no intellectual! I think he was elevated to such a status because for many in the west (Protestants as well) he became a Polish icon in the fight against the the then Soviet Union and he was very much associated with Lech Walesa and his Solidarnosc movement. Iwonder if the Papacy might have moved in a new reforming direction if Cardinal Luciani had been given a chance. His murder is the only conspiracy theory to which I subscribe. He was a reformer and there was a massive cover up ref his post mortum etc. The evidence that he had been murdered was not fantastical either IMHO. (one of the School of Cardinals used to carry a revolver under his robes an was known as the "Pope's Enforcer" I forget his name , I think it was Polish and he had been Bishop of Chicago previously.off to google gun toting cardinal

My guess is that they knew they wouldn't have enough priests left and would struggle to get any new ones. We know they were aware of this scandal, how many others have they covered up?

Every chance they get the Vatican proves they are a harbor for scum and villainy, and they are so distrusted that I've had to avoid the use of the word conspiracy thus far as it is to much of a chicle.

The good news is that almost no one holds to their dogma in its entirety, and that means they are losing their grip. watch this space, we may live to see the downfall of the most insular, corrupt, bigoted and murderous entity in recorded history.

Exactly what he was when a lad, whether he believed in the Reich or was just following orders is a smelly red herring.

Lets not get distracted from the subject in hand. Which is that the current Pope appears to have been part of the systemic cover up of child abuse within the Catholic church.

OK maybe he was "only" a member of the Hitler youth, and after the event I'm sure a lot of willing volunteers claimed they were forced. But you do realise the catholic church did help a lot of "proper" Nazi escape after WW2?

But why doesn't the current pope come out now and clearly state, anyone accused of abuse will be handed over to the legal authorities in the country where the abuse is said to have taken place, and if found guilty will be kicked out of the church, with no pension or support?

It would at least be a start?