Catholic church - time to call it a day?

[Chil1234]

I truly hope that the latest scandals and accusations have hit the catholic church hard or preferably killed it stone dead. If it were isolated incidents or if the problems had been handled considerately, it might be put down to the vagiaries of life or the human condition. If other religious organisations had the same breadth of complaints one might make a faith connection. But it isn't the case.

The catholic church's position of absolute authority, of 'doing God's work', and expecting unthinking obedience, has resulted in apalling corruption and terrible abuse..... from the Magdalen Laundries, the Holly Mount Orphanage, the organisations that shipped children off to terrible conditions in Australia to the cover-ups surrounding abusive priests today. People in my own family have been direct victims of 'pastoral care', having their lives ruined when they most needed help. It's not enough to say that the church does a lot of good work or that there are good people in the organisation... that does not compensate for the instutionalised megalomania and abuse of privilege.

When the Pope visits I, for one, will not be there to greet him. Shame on the lot of them

If Mumsnet advertised such a campaign or anything of the sort it might spread enough to cause real pressure.

What I really think is that any decent human being would leave once they realised what they had joined, but it seems it's too much to ask.

Okay, so we can just wait a few months and the then current membership of the church will consist only of abusers and those who will accept abuse as long as it doesn't spoil their Sunday.

At least we'll know who they all are.

Funny you think the faithful might rebel against the Vatican over these never-ending sexual abuse stories and their shameless cover-up.

These are the same people who actually believe transubstantiation and virgin birth, so probably not the most questioning and rebellious minds among us. I'm slightly saddened but not surprised that they continue to follow the leader.

My Mother had dinner with a Catholic priest last week. She suggested the rule of celibacy makes the church a good hiding place for paedophiles. Her friend said that was 'too kind'.

His view was this was 'too kind'. He said celibacy 'twists' peoples' nature. Teenage boys go into seminaries just at the point when their sexual development is at a peak. Their emotional development is halted and they can only relate to children (he said).

I still don't think marrying stops people being paedophiles: based on the experience within my own family. A married father of four raped my boy cousins. Fred West was married. So was that Austrian monster and the Belgian paedophiles who kept girls in cellars.

I certainly do agree that emotionally being sent away from women so early is not helpful. Our priest is lovely (he has been very kind to me and my daughter at times of need) but he still finds it very hard to do things like make eye-contact with me or talk to me in a way that's not bombarding me with information or being very joky. Sometimes I just want to remind him that women can be talked to in exactly the same way as men. That's what some of them have lost: the ability to communicate with women in an easy manner.

My mother's Irish priest is quite different, though. He could talk to anyone and has a very outgoing personality.

Funnily enough women almost run the parish to real degree. They organise training for children, the choir, are treasurers, chair various committees, etc.

'the then current membership of the church will consist only of abusers and those who will accept abuse as long as it doesn't spoil their Sunday.'

None of us 'accept' abuse. We have children ourselves and were children at the time of the peak abuse. My brother and friends spent a lot of time at the priests' houses in the late seventies. I find it deeply insulting and upsetting that you are insinuating that I might be condoning anything that might have happened to these boys.

Of course there are paedophiles who are married BUT the paedophilia in the Catholic church may be related to celibacy. Not my argument, the argument of a Catholic priest. He happens to be a very intelligent man - holds a senior position at a university so is capable of thinking through an argument in some depth rather than giving an ill thought out knee jerk response.

He has observed what a lack of normal human development does to 18yos as he was in a seminary himself originally, but left and had a normal life until returning to train as a priest in his early 40s. So he has broad experience and knows what he's talking about.

Abride, I'm sorry that YOU are feeling upset, but there are small children out there having a much worse time than you are.

Most people have abandoned this thread now to get on with celebrating Easter - many of them at church I would imagine. So now what? Are you content to carry on as usual? it's just something in the news after all. nothing to do with you.

"I find it deeply insulting and upsetting that you are insinuating that I might be condoning anything that might have happened to these boys."

By turning up to church you give tacit approval to the Vatican. I'm not saying this is conscious approval but rather an acceptance of the situation. I wouldn't accuse any one of agreeing with what happened, but their mandate comes from catholic support and you provide that.

No one wants to insult or upset you, in fact I would say this is a good time for catholics and atheists to work together.

Yeah, and I made a suggestion about a way to protest things that could even work - or at least give those participating the chance to try. Maybe it wouldn't make a difference and someone can come up with a better idea that will. Anyone?

Someone, somewhere needs to DO something because in a week this will all be put aside and it will be business as usual.

I predict that if this is even mentioned in 3 months time posters will say "oh that. That was just some troublemakers spreading lies. Nothing came of it"

Yes: if you really object do something about it. Make a point. I stopped going to church because going condones the institution. I myself coulnd't understand whay anyone would want to go to a church that hates them, thinks they are second class citize4ns anyway. Shame on all people who marry, have children christened etc.. in such an institution. If you're really horrified about these recent shocking allegations, let alone all the other things this church stands for, vote with your feet. Have the courage of your convictions.

I don't think that following this disaster many catholics will leave the church - where would they go?

It will be the same old same old.

I think the point that someone made about people accepting money in lieu of keeping their mouths shut about their kids' abuse is telling - it seems that the threat of excommunication is very serious to many of the followers.

Reminds me of my deeply catholic mil who stayed with her husband who abused her and my dh and told me she wanted to remain married and the kids should just get used to it (ie my dh having to suffer beatings and verbal abuse ALOT). Or same mil saying to me when her bil is having an afair leaving sil feeling depressed that if SHE divorced him SHE'D be breaking up the family. There is an idea that some people and some institutions are are less above criticism and responsibility than others.

That's the sad thing. I am respectful of the fact my dh is a catholic but not baptising my son was the right thing I think - dh can find out all he needs himself and if he wants to sign up then fine. But I shan't be leading the way.

The paper today says it will cost £15m in security when the Pope comes over here. And I bet the cops will obstruct and harass demonstrators, just as they did at the G20.

I can think of many other ways we need to spend £15m especially during this financial crisis.

Who foots the bill on that one? Seriously £15million? Is he going to Ireland anytime soon?

Apparently we will...

When's he coming again: I'll be there.

I'd forgotten about Sinead tearing up the photo - bloody well done that woman. Very powerful article.