Catholic church - time to call it a day?

[Chil1234]

I truly hope that the latest scandals and accusations have hit the catholic church hard or preferably killed it stone dead. If it were isolated incidents or if the problems had been handled considerately, it might be put down to the vagiaries of life or the human condition. If other religious organisations had the same breadth of complaints one might make a faith connection. But it isn't the case.

The catholic church's position of absolute authority, of 'doing God's work', and expecting unthinking obedience, has resulted in apalling corruption and terrible abuse..... from the Magdalen Laundries, the Holly Mount Orphanage, the organisations that shipped children off to terrible conditions in Australia to the cover-ups surrounding abusive priests today. People in my own family have been direct victims of 'pastoral care', having their lives ruined when they most needed help. It's not enough to say that the church does a lot of good work or that there are good people in the organisation... that does not compensate for the instutionalised megalomania and abuse of privilege.

When the Pope visits I, for one, will not be there to greet him. Shame on the lot of them

WTF, that was an analogy. once again I'm agog.

Tinnitus, the self-serving bleatings of Irish politicians on the subject of child abuse by priests and nuns in institutions where care of Irish children was farmed out by the state are really pathetic, and just as nauseating as any of the statements along the lines of 'following orders' by Cardinal Brady.

So now it IS about keeping it from the police, but now the excuse is it might be best for the victim. I thought the defence before was it didn't mean keeping it secret from the police at all.

It sounds like some people will take any position at all that defends the church regardless of its accuracy or morality.

Just can't keep away, this is a sad addiction
Onagar, I did not give any defence previously, I said i would look into it further and try to find out some more information. That is what I did and what I came up with seemed to me to show that the rules were designed to protect the victims.

I will try to defend the church as best I can you are right. I believe in it and it is my right to do so. Believe it or not I am a staunch Catholic AND a hater of child abuse If I found something in church teaching that I thought was immoral I would not try to defend it.

Um, Freddo, saying the BBC is so biased that you won't even read their links makes you look a bit...odd. Let me summarise the first one for you:

• "Allegations of sexual abuse are being investigated in 18 of Germany's 27 Roman Catholic dioceses."

• The German justice minister has criticised the Vatican for making it harder for the authorities to investigate and prosecute abuse cases.

Fairly simple facts. Do you dispute them? Just 'stories made up by journalists'?

This might help.

analogy
/nalji/

? noun (pl. analogies) 1 a comparison between one thing and another made to explain or clarify. 2 a correspondence or partial similarity.

I'm afraid you're wrong about that date of 1990, Coted'Azure.

Galileo's works were eventually removed from the Index and in 1822, at the behest of Pius VII, the Holy Office granted an imprimatur to the work of Canon Settele, in which Copernicanism was presented as a physical fact and no longer as an hypothesis.

But carry on Catholic bashing. ;)

abride - Actually, I just checked the date and it was in November 1992 that Catholic Church issued a statement that Galileo was right after all.

I read this in Carl Sagan's book "The Demon Haunted World", but here is a New Scientist link that says:

Vatican admits Galileo was right
07 November 1992
In 1633, the Inquisition of the Roman Catholic Church forced Galileo Galilei, one of the founders of modern science, to recant his theory that the Earth moves around the Sun. Last week, 359 years later, the Church finally agreed. At a ceremony in Rome, before the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, Pope John Paul II officially declared that Galileo was right. The formal rehabilitation was based on the findings of a committee of the Academy the Pope set up in 1979, soon after taking office.

But carry on with... err... whatever it is you thought you were doing ;)

"I'm afraid you're wrong about that date of 1990, Coted'Azure."

In 1992, Pope John Paul II acknowledged that that the church made a mistake when it condemned Galileo

'My opinion is that dwelling on this case is very wrong given that Fr Murphy only had a few months left to live, it is hardly a typical case. perhaps it was a mistake for him to take pity on a dying man. The point is that in general the Pope IS trying to improve procedures and make things more transparent'

That is also my opinion Freddo. I had retired from this thread because I was finding it wuite emotional and exhausting. However, I wanted to let you know you are not alone.

quite not wuite

Marjoirew

Fellow mumsnetters: this is the best RCs can do in defending the actions of the pope and the child rapist he failed to report to the police. The standard of the argument defending the church's actions says a lot really. You are, as someone wiser than me said a few posts ago, not up to this standard of debate. You are defending men who failed to bring to justice child rapists and the best you can claim is that:

1. the pope was kind and right to forgive a poor dying rapist

1. it was probbaly the case that the victims didn't want the poor, ill child rapist punished in the first place.

I rest my case. You have no case, just blind faith and dogma. Pretty much all your historical arguments are wrong, but that's the least of your crimes.

I had a close friend whose brother was abused by a trainee priest when he was 12 years old. When he finally built up the courage to tell his deeply devout Catholic parents, they told him he must pray for the trainee who was a good man who had sinned. Most of all, they told him not to tell the police because this might lead to the poor young man losing his chance to become a priest and as he was obviously called by god to enter the church, they must, as good Catholics, help him. I never could understand the disgusting attitude of the parents, but having read these posts, I now do.

This thread has descended to a level beyond parody - the cover up was to protect the children! I understand now - of course! And there was me thinking they were protecting their power base and reinforcing their standing in the community at the expense of innocent victims. Thank you for putting me right on that!

FFS. I was staying away from this thread because it was making me incredibly frustrated.

I just typed out a whole long reply then my computer crashed and I can't be arsed doing it again, i want to go to bed. Your post is wrong on so many levels and I really haven't got the energy to go through it point by point to try and point out why to someone who is clearly not listening anyway.

I'm sorry to hear about your personal connection with the situation.

So I'm guessing the RCs have all given up then?

Yes, you've won Tinnitus. Well done.

Great. I'll let the Vatican know.

I woke in the middle of the night last night and was just asking myself if we had had the internet when I was a little girl, if there wouldn't have been so much secrecy around regarding what has been going on?

Would more people/professionals have reported what they knew or would they still have shirked their responsibilities?

@Tinnitus:

I'll let the Vatican know.

Don't bother - they will probably deny it or bury it.

No need for them to do that, there's plenty here that will do it for them.

If you're catholic and don't like what's going on, but don't know what to do then I have a suggestion.

Find the others in your local congregation who agree with you (surely that is all of them isn't it?)

Agree to go to church as usual, but to stay outside the building for the service until the Vatican acts.

You might even get the priest to join you and give his sermon out there. Imagine the statement that would make. That you want your religion, but you can't bear to walk into the church itself while those running it condone or ignore these abuses.

Imagine if millions of you did it.

Onager: the point is that they won't.