Venables - one of the James Bulger killers - back in jail

[LadyBlaBlah]

here

Not a good advertisement for the rehabilitation programme they went on. I did hear that it was in Ireland and he tried to strangle a girlfriend..........but obviously that is not based on any factual evidence, just internet gossip.

Anyhow, difficult difficult difficult

i mean about the men who go into prison this week

OK so it's the Daily Mail but if you go down to the second section, it says what their 8 years "prison" term was like. Of course it has been given meeja spin, but it still doesn't sound like it was all that bad in comparison.

Of course size0 is entitled to her opinion. I also think that opinions that advocate rape should be kept from a public forum.

I am not defending JV.
He was a child when he murdered James, and has served his sentence. Whether or not you agree with the length of the sentence does not give you the right to express opinions of the type size0 did. Certainly not on this forum anyway, and I would assume mn will delete that post.

His recall to prison shows that whilst rehab does not always work, the systems in place to protect the public do.

who is defending him?

It is entirely possible to find what he and Thompson did abhorrent, to feel for the parents (I note that there has been absolutely no mention of James bulger's father on this thread, was he not a victim too?), while at the same time acknowledging that these two boys were ten year old children when they committed this crime, and for that to have happened there must have been something deeply, deeply wrong either in their upbringings or their backgrounds or their personalities that led to them torturing and killing a small child.

It is easier to write them off as evil and beyond redemption because the alternative is to admit that we are part of a society that failed two small children to the extent that they were led to commit such a horrendous crime. It's much easier to turn your back and wish they would burn in hell than to want to be a part of that.

And even if Venables had a loving upbringing, you can't tell me that this incident was the first indication that something was wrong. You can't tell me there weren't signs that there were some serious issues with that child. He didn't just wake up one morning and decide to go out and kill someone, so where were the people who were supposed to look out for him? His parents? teachers? medical professionals? social services? They are all in part culpable for what happened to James Bulger, as much as if they'd lured him away themselves. And we are all a part of the society that failed those three children. That prevented Venables and Thompson from being helped before it was too late, and thus preventing James Bulger's death.

Oh and wishing rape etc on an individual is surely incitement to violence which is, afaik, a criminal offence. So no, size0 is not entitled to voice that opinion.

Why do so many people drool at the prospect of prisoners meting out punishment to other prisoners?

Inmates don't generally attack others because of a strong sense of moral outrage. They do it to make themselves the hardest man in jail.

Why should I be pleased that a murderer or armed robber beats up a paedophile?

Does that make up for say, pouring petrol over a security guard and standing over him with a match?

Both of them are prisoners and deserve to be punished and also protected by the authorities.

thumbwitch - did you read the article linked to above in the independent? it explains how children in this type of home are rehabilitated that they have to earn those sort of privileges and trips out serve a purpose. Was very interesting and puts the Dailymail rant into perspective.

Can anyone who is defending these 2 monsters actually remember the details of the murder?

Do you feel anything towards that little boy who was brutally tortured and then killed? I cannot comprehend how anyone can express sympathy for the fuckers that carried out what was a cruel and terrifying attack on a child, little more than a baby.

Apologies if I offended anyone with my post. Maybe firing squad is of better taste.

Either way, I do not wish them a well and happy life.

But some people have been defending them. JV was referred to as a 'poor bloke' earlier in the thread and many people are defending their right to rehabilitation and a second chance. I do not agree with this or understand it.

I'm not advocating violence but the nature of the crime that they committed is bound to evoke feelings of anger in people, and where as I do not agree with Size0 about the rape thing, I can fully understand why she feels that way.

well said wannabe

WannaBe that was an excellent post

i would much rather live in a society that gives 10 year old boys the chance of rehabilitation and a second chance than one that would condemn a 10 year old child to potentially 70/80 years of imprisonment.

Equally i would rather live in a society where 10 year old don't commit crimes like the one discussed here. One where families and children are supported and helped and the threat of violence and the cycle of abuse is removed.

Size2 of course animals do or have yu never owned a cat?

What't the criteria for human then? if its s et of repsonsibilitiers does that mean that small abaies or disabled people aren't human?

youa re entitled to your views but that comes with arespect for others also

"If these two had spent the rest of their lives in jail, Mrs Bulger wouldn't feel any better. If they'd been hung, she wouldn't feel any better.If they'd have dies a slow agnonising death over months she wouldn't feel any better"

She tell you that, did she?

I stand with happymat, size 0, 2shoes etc, on this one.

I never said everyone on this thread. I said many people were defending their right for a second chance and for rehabilitation. This is true.

It is possible to be horrified by their crime and feel agony for James alongside an opinion that 10yo children deserve a chance a rehabilitation

Defending their right to this is so far removed from defending them or their crime.
This simplistic attitude is driving me nuts.

I stand with happymat, size 0, 2shoes etc, on this one.

please don't put me in the same group as size0

I might think they don't deserve a second chance. but i don't think the things that posted suggested are right either.

totally agree mcth.

The one thing that people seem unable to grasp here is that these two boys were children.

If we were having this discussion about Peter Sutcliffe (who has in fact been in the media this week) then no-one would be calling for his release. And the fundamental reason for that is that, apart from the crimes he committed, at the time he committed these crimes, he was an adult.

Why is it so hard for people to see the difference between adult and child? Do you treat your children as adults? Do you expect them to behave as adults? Given you feel that these boys should have been treated as adults when they were still children, why would you not do the same for your own children?

MoreCrackThanHarlem "simplistic" a word often used by people who don't like people having a differing opinion to themselves.

Of course everyone is entitled to an opinion and no I do not have cats.

Does anyone have a 10 year old? What would they think of what those boys did? Mine would be distraught.

I feel sure that at that age they knew what they were doing was wrong. Do you think they felt anything when that small boy was probably screaming in agony?

If everyone who had been abused or had a shitty upbringing were to carry out acts like this we would be fucked.

The attitude that they deserve anything is driving me nuts.

You're right, it is simplistic. I don't know what the answer is in terms of what should be done with them. And yes what wannaBe says is true with regard to society having a responsibility and that there would have been signs before it happeded that something was very wrong with these boys.

I still have the opinion though that they do not deserve rehabilitation and the opportunity to go on to have a normal life. They gave up any right to this when they committed the crime.

Morecrack, did you read my post before you growled out your answer to me, and accused me of defending size0? Did you read the part where I said 'That doesn't mean she's right, she's wrong in fact'?
Did you read any of my posts at all? No, thought not.
You accused her of something she never said and I pointed that out. No need to get hysterical and adversarial.

so at what age do you think that children would not deserve a second chance? Let's not think about the legal age of responsibility, as we all know that all children are different.

If an eight year old committed the same kind of crime would you have him condemned for life? a six year old? a four year old?

We all bring our children up to know right from wrong, so at what age do you think that children should take adult responsibility and lose the right to a second chance?

Wannabe, I mentioned JB's parents. That obviously includes his father.