Venables - one of the James Bulger killers - back in jail

[LadyBlaBlah]

here

Not a good advertisement for the rehabilitation programme they went on. I did hear that it was in Ireland and he tried to strangle a girlfriend..........but obviously that is not based on any factual evidence, just internet gossip.

Anyhow, difficult difficult difficult

Size zero I have my adored 2 yr ewold on me atm, of course i cry when ir ead the details

Why on earth would I lower mysekf to wish anyone raped though? never.

As for hell.... well if it exists then thats's for a divine being to decide with a real knowledge of all truths in the matter isn't it?

As far as I am aware, God doesn't use a jury. He doesn't need one. Where as we, as humans, are fallible especially in complex instances. And when we are clouded by emotion and a desire for vengeance we are at our most so.

Lord protect my children from kids like TV and JT but also from people with a desire to see children arse raped.

Peachy, I agree with you to a point. But you can't equate the man Venables is now with the photos of him as a child then. When would you say our responsibility towards him ends?

2shoes, I understand your points too, but you are not taking on board Peachy's argument that 10 years or less is quite a common jail term for an adult who has murdered a child. I disagree with it, but why then should children have a longer jail term than an adult for a similar crime?

And I'm just ignoring the 'hang 'em' brigade. You don't add anything to the debate.

I believe justice was served. They spent 8 years in a correctional institution, at the time of their release they had spent nearly half their lives in 'prison'. That would be the same as a 20 year old spending 16 years in prison. 8 years is a long time for a young child. They were given the opportunity to experience (based on the independent article) boundaries and support to enable them to be rehabilitated. You only have to watch the super-nanny programme to see how much progress can be made with a child's behaviour just by setting strict boundaries and goals.

I totally agree that what they did was one of the most horrendous crimes committed and understand the throw away the key comments made here i just don't agree with the born evil and incapable of rehabilitation.

If the report is true that JV got into a fight and has a drugs problem then both of those would seem 'normal' behavior for a man of his age but equally breach the terms of his license and he deserves to be detained because of it, he knew he needed to keep his nose clean and toe the line he has chosen not too. This however in my opinion doesn't suggest his rehabilitation has failed.

He is no longer a child.

Of course it means the rehabilitation has failed.
This not a 'normal' young man, so getting into fights and generally aggressive behaviour would not be considered normal if he had experienced remorse and accepted what he did was wrong.

I think the trouble with trying to give justice to the victim's family is that it can never work.
If these two had spent the rest of their lives in jail, Mrs Bulger wouldn't feel any better. If they'd been hung, she wouldn't feel any better.If they'd have dies a slow agnonising death over months she wouldn't feel any better.
She has lost her boy and nothing can ever, ever fix that.

In the States the victim's families are allowed to watch the execution of the murderer, and yet they are all still overhwelmingly sad and angry.

That's not to say, of course, these boys should not be punished for what they did. They must. But to attempt to help the victim through said punishment is, imho, a pointless exercise.

I know a woman whose child was killed by a careless driver. He got a very high sentence. It doesn't matter to her,it doesn't make her feel any better, she would like to see him dead.

No he is no longer a child, but he has done his time - whether you think it was the right amount of time or not. You want him to be raped in prison for taking drugs and having a fight with a colleague. I think you'll be wanting the same fate for quite a few prison inmates then.

he is in prison of course the rehabilitation has failed

ok maybe not normal but certainly not unusual, drug use amongst 20 and 30 somethings is probably around 15%, and equally how many 27 somethings get into fights? if that is the reason.

Litrchick - i agree nothing is going to help the grief and emptiness that James' mother feels.

It's such a shame that people like size0 post on a thread like this with extremist views that discount the various complexities of the case.

A shame, mainly, for people like whoisasking and 2shoes who are trying to thoughtfully argue their point.

I think mnhq should step in when a poster is promoting the use of the anal rape of a child as a punishment.
I'm sure posters on both sides of the debate would rather not have such a person on this forum.

I do think that 8 years is not enough, unfortunately after this time there was no suitable place to hold them that could continue the work of attempting to rehabilitate the boys.
If there was such an institution I would think they could have been held for longer without risking undoing all the work and time spent on them whilst in their secure juvenile facility.

Rollmops summed it up for me really, they do not deserve to be rehabilitated. Preachy put's over some very good points but that does not change the sickness I feel at the horry these boys inflicted.

The argument for rehabilitation and a second chance seems to be based on the fact that they suffered a terrible childhood themselves and therefore knew no better. But if this is not the case for JV and he had as normal and loving upbringing as most children do then what excuse can there be for his behaviour? How can he be anything other than pure evil?

I would not go as far as to say they should be raped etc. but I don't think that they should be free men, free to father children of their own. I hope that everyday they wake with fear that their identities may be discovered and that someone may come after them. I hope they feel sick with fear every morning when they wake and every night before they go to bed for the rest of their lives - James Bulger's mother has to live with this forever and they should too.

Horror

I don't think they served long enough.

They were old enough to carefully plan and execute the torture and murder of a toddler.

The more I think about it the more I stand by my previous post.

a longer sentance would have been some kind of justice for the family.
not a few years and then a new life....

JB would have been about 19 now. they robbed him of his teens and his adult life.
I Don't support the death penalty, but I do think the punishment should fit the crime.
8 years doesn't

Morecrack, I don't understand why people keep saying Size0 is advocating the anal rape of a child. He IS NOT a child any more and I'm sure she means NOW. That's not to say she is right, she's wrong in fact, but please stop accusing people of advocating the sexual abuse of children.

Happymatleave, your last paragraph is exactly how I feel to be honest. That's their life sentence, as the pain of losing their son is the life sentence of James' parents.

Can we just clarify what exactly we think we mean by served anyway - where were they detained because my impression is/was they were basically in a children's home, which is where they would have ended up anyway if social services had done their job in the first place, so actually there really was no punishment whatsoever.
Counseling, Art therapy and one to one educational tuition that our children could only dream of enjoying and still the little bastard fucks up and ends up back inside.

If he is attacked in prison size0 then you'll get an outcry like there was for Baby P's murder when when he was hurt by a fellow prison, I'd rather JV was left alone than gained any public sympathy whatsoever.
Oh and mumsnet appears to be the only place on the planet where JV is getting any sympathy at all, funny old world isn't it.

I do mean now. He is no longer a child.

I am entitled to my opinion, as you are yours.

Why should they have human rights when they didn't behave like humans. Not even sure that animals perform acts of torture upon each other.

Ok then, Scotia.
It's ok to hope for an adult to be raped then?
Just as horrifying imo, I think by defending her you are doing no favours to your cause, whichever side of the debate you side with.

MrsGuyofGuisborne (if you come back to this discussion)

I cant tell you, categorically, without debate that yes, JV did attempt to join the Army, but was denied before he was even past the first post - he may have had a new identity but there are ways put in place for cases like this that means people like him cannot join. He was 'failed' at careers office stage, without the careers advisors even knowing why (though I am sure they may have guessed that he had a 'secret' - not who he was though)

But everyone is entitled to their opinion MoreCrackThanHarlem. You may be appauled that Size0 thinks rape is an appropriate punishment for them but I am appauled that at the number of people on hear who are defending these boys. I can no more understand that attitude than you can Size0's.

MMM = i don't have sympathy for JV, i do however believe that justice was served, his recall to prison is all part and parcel of the justice process.

I do feel for any bloke in his late 20's who has entered the prison system this week, as they are now at serious risk of attack - you just have to read the comment made on here to know why.

There is no defence for them. JV, in particular, did not have a terrible home life. According to most reports it was Robert Thompson who came from the more violent and negligent background.
I am usually quite liberal about these things but really, I don't have much sympathy for JV

Katz that is so true.