Venables - one of the James Bulger killers - back in jail

[LadyBlaBlah]

here

Not a good advertisement for the rehabilitation programme they went on. I did hear that it was in Ireland and he tried to strangle a girlfriend..........but obviously that is not based on any factual evidence, just internet gossip.

Anyhow, difficult difficult difficult

so you are saying thay thought torturing a young lad and murdering him was ok?

sorry I don't buy that.

I'm still getting over someones earlier comments on venables "poor Bloke" - WTF , yeh I'm sure they would be thinking that if that was their 3yr old lying on those railway tracks - shakes head and leaves.

Surely the point is that these boys were treated with compassion because they were children. The focus was moved away from the victim and onto them, which is why there was no justice for the Bulger family. There never could be because you can't hold 10 year olds accountable for their actions in the way you can adults. So these damaged kids were treated as victims by the justice system and every effort was made to repair them. Which was quite right. Appalling for James Bulger's mother, who could never ever get justice, but right neverless.

Because every 10 year old deserves a second chance, right?

Except they are no longer 10, and as adults who have been allowed to start again with new lives and clean slates, they are very much accountable for their actions.

And no one will ever be able to convince me that they deserve a third chance.

At the time, I was thinking I would hate to be the judge who decided the fate of these boys.

Now,as a Mother, I would now like to know if the parents or carers of these boys were prosecuted.

I think not.

There's no evidence that Jon Venables came from an abusive home. From everything I've read, his parents were caring and supportive. They were separated, and I suppose you could argue that the chaos caused by that damaged the kid in some way, but his parents seemed to have cared for him.
He was just violent.

On the other hand, the other boy had an appalling background of abuse and neglect.

It appears that the reason JV was recalled to prison was because of a fight with another colleague at work. He had to be pulled off the other man, a complaint was made, he was suspended by his workplace and then recalled to prison. He is also alleged to have a history of drug abuse.see here for details

Looks like his rehab went really well then.

StewieGriffins..., put the sock in it.
Stop wringing your hands and squealing about the rights of the poor 10 year old boys who weren't taught right from wrong.
This is idiotic to the highest degree.
There is such thing as intrinsic evil and these two horrid monsters are the bloody poster boys for it.
Even a 4 year old knows that hitting hurts. Hence it's not nice. 10 year olds KNOW that hitting and cutting hurts, yet they kept deliberately hurting a little boy who couldn't fight back. Because he was only 2 years old. He cried but they didn't stop.
These two were cold blooded murderers of a baby. Knowing that what they were doing was wrong. Knowing that they were causing a lot of pain. Yet still going on and on until the little boy finally died.
They did not deserve another chance. I do not want to be part of society where monsters like those lurk the streets. Because you can not rehabilitate intrinsic evil.

thumbwitch - have you seen the comments on that article?

Here's one:

"I think he should be extradited to Wales, and forced to live the remainder of his life there, that would sort him out. There is no room in normal society for the likes of this man"

I did a totally inappropriate SNORT at the idea that extradition to Wales is the answer.

Some people are just potty.

There is definitely such a thing as "intrinsic evil", is there? I'm equally sure there's no such thing, but we can't prove it either way.

"It appears that the reason JV was recalled to prison was because of a fight with another colleague at work. He had to be pulled off the other man, a complaint
was made, he was suspended by his workplace and then recalled to prison. He is also alleged to have a history of drug abuse." People fight though. Go into any city centre on a friday or saturday night and it's rife. ditto with drug abuse.

And it's worth bearing in mind that all this speculation could well come back to bite the media in the arse. Because if Venables has committed a crime then it will surely come to court, and whatever he has done in the past he is still entitled to a fair trial. However, if all this info becomes public, then the chances of him receiving a fair trial are practically nil, which means that he could quite possibly end up having to be aquitted on the basis he cannot receive a fair trial.

Wannabe / SGM / Apples agree

Rollmiops its fine to state your opinion but telling others they cant isn't.

Oh and if JV was in a fight gthen I am glad he is back in priosn: am slightly worried that you or I would get a trial before it was announced what we had done mind.

Am not suyrprised about drugs tbh, I posted yesterday that if I had done something like that then I'd be either dead from suicide or a lifelong drug addict to blur it out.

Fights like that happen so very often, i've never known anyone impriosned for one before especially pre conviction so that suggest indeed that it siworking and the leash is short. Better a short elash and return to jail than no chance whatsoever.

(But i'd happily have seen the boys apents / carers jailed for life for the abuse.... am a hand wringer for ten year olds, not for adults)

I didn't think JV came from a hideously abusive background at all, it was the other boy who had experienced a very troubled childhood. JV had a history of violence. I once read in a very detailed report that they experienced "joy" in what they did , it was a planned as many have said, and sustained hideously violent attack on a defenceless baby.

It was the combination of the two together that proved to be such a lethal cocktail, it is/was very rare and I don't think the system knew what on earth to do with them at the time.

I honestly feel that there is no hope of successful rehabilitation in a case of such abominable cruelty, I think they need to be institutionalised for life. I personally don't feel age 10 is like age 6, there was no reason in his background for JV not to feel empathy or be aware that inflicting pain to another is very wrong.

The new id concept actually makes me feel ill - that they could become part of a family, father children and their partners be totally oblivious to such a seriously violent past.

StewieGriffinsMom so they deaserve a second chance....
you mean like the one they didn't give thier victim

2shoes no they didnt and they deserve punishment for that, as has been done.

However other murdered get a second chance, lifelong sentences are very rare and afaik usually peoplew like brady (multoiple killings) etc

I think they dont deserve less chances than any other murderer, and yes I do think they deserve a bit more because of their gae at time of crime- whilst I cann understand a call for all child murdueres to get full life terms, I can't fathom the ones for these people who were children to get more term than adults who do similar
Every day I switch on thec tv tp hear aboutpeople murdering small babies, children (usually in their own care) and getting terms of 20 or less: why would children killing chioldren deserve more?

peachy thay served(if you can call it that 8 years.
hardly life.
how the hell can that be right.
if they had stayed in prison untill 30 they would still have got a senond chace at life.
something the little lad never got.

It depends if you can prove pre-meditation, many infanticide cases are within the family home by family members and is crossed boundries with neglect and abuse. This is why sentences are decreased.
The murder of James Bulger was obviously, explicitly planned.

Isn't that a slightly diferent debate though?

I don't think 8 was right: equally I don't think 30 is right as at 10 8 years and the loss of your teens is more than 8 years at 30, 40.

Isn't a normal life term 15 years (with up to 40 possible)? and there is no whole life possible for a minor.

I do think they were kept in the right palce: what on earth wouild be the point of causing further damage? I fully beleive that the two ahd a price to pay by being in detention: otoh I also think we as a society ahd a responsibility to at least try and undo any damage, esp to JT if he were the abused party.

There was someone near me given less than ten years recently for manslaughter of a baby (whilt intentionally injuirng said baby) as an adult. It seems incredible to me that he deserves only that (and who doesn't know that violence towards a baby can be fatal)? and yet their is such an outcry for ten year olds to ahve been given more.

sorry I dont agree that we have nay responsibility to them.
I think our responsibility lies with the victim and his family.
thier lives were ruined, they can never be repaired never, so helping them live with thier pain should be the priority imo. the first step to that is to give them justice.
8 years in a detentin centre was not justice.

"I still cry when I think of that poor toddler.

I think they both should burn in hell and I hope that venables gets arse raped to death in prison. Fucking evil bastards."

Nice.