Venables - one of the James Bulger killers - back in jail

[LadyBlaBlah]

here

Not a good advertisement for the rehabilitation programme they went on. I did hear that it was in Ireland and he tried to strangle a girlfriend..........but obviously that is not based on any factual evidence, just internet gossip.

Anyhow, difficult difficult difficult

Kimi as others said only TV has been recalled: JT is 50% and we can presume that whatever he is dping now he is legal.

Which really is rehab is it not?

Big momma if you mean me I wasnt fdlaunting quals deliberately, but stating my viewpoint that evil does not exist as an innate trait- a view I am as much entitled to hold as you are yoour opiniosn.

I amgload your twin boys ahve empathy: my ds1 does not due to a cvery real SN. However he cannot ever offend because I would not give him sufficient rein, and because he is making good and real progress putely becuase I have spent a decade fighting for help. Without it I stick me head out and admit DH and I expected him to end up in priosn: these kids did not ahve that. I am not suggesting they ahve SN but empathy can be lost or fail to develop for many reaosns.

The abuse tehye were subjected to is pretty well documented I thought? I remember reading much about it at the time.

Noone is making excuses as far as I can tell. What is being discussed is how such offenders are dealt with.

21shoes show me anyone who ahs said the murederers hould not be punished and should have been freed at the time of the crime? I ahve yet to see that post tbh.

We're tlaking now, years post release, not then. Of ocurse they ahd to go to prison / rehab, that was bloody obvious. the debate is whatb happens afterwards i think.

peachy they didn't go to prison.
this will be his first taste of adult prison..
they didn't even stay in the young offenders place for very long.
hardly justice

They didn't go to adult prison because there was a very real concern that the environment there would undo all the good done in their rehabilitation. 8 years is quite a long time to a 10 year old.

please tell me that is a joke.....

"Which is why the Lord Chief Justice, Lord Woolf, when he lowered the tariff on the Bulger killers, cited as his reason that transferring Thompson and Venables to the ?corrosive atmosphere? of a Young Offenders Institution could undo the good done by eight years in a secure home."

From the Independent article linked to earlier. It does say YOI tbf, I had remembered it as adult prison,

It is very expensive!

The majority of serious offenders ire incapable of being rehabilitated.

Death penalty would be my preference.

stands back and waits for abuse

the death penalty is barbaric.
also what do you do about miscarriges of justice?
but 8 years is a joke how ever old they were at the time of the crime..

Not sure there is a country in the World that has the death penalty for children as young as 10.

TBH i think it is the right thing to do to try and rehabilitate them they were children afterall. However, it is important to be realistic about how well it can work. They must have had a horrific childhood to have committed those acts so there will always be the possibility that they would be far too broken to be fixed.

I am not sure of the details of Mary Bell but she committed similarly appalling crimes as a consequence of an extremely abusive and neglectful childhood. She is now, a mother with a new identity. Presumably her rehabilitation worked?

I need to clarify:

I would like to see the death penalty reinstated for heinous crimes. Not for children though however heinous their offence.

The boys who killed Jamie Bulger did undoubtedly have a horrendous childhood and there are children in this country right now having similar childhoods. We don't intervene early enough to save these children. We also need to stop abusive and neglectful parents breeding. Children are a privilege and parents who offend against them need to be stopped from damaging more lives. (My parents adopted a neglected, abused 1 year old many years ago and his scumbag parents went on to have 4 more children who were not removed at birth as they should have been. These children were damaged beyond belief and are carrying on in the same vein as their parents)

Crimes committed by adults need to be dealt with severely to stop the levels of reoffending we have. In Texas the rate for house burglary is miniscule because homeowners can shoot them. It works.

Sex offenders are impossible to rehabilitate and will always be a danger. Face facts, you cannot change what turns you on.

Miscarriages of justice are appalling but advanced DNA testing is proving to be invaluable. Our prisons are overflowing in a country with an unsustainable level of indebtedness. The death penalty would act as a deterrent and save us billions of pounds in tax payers money.

If you could choose where you tax pounds went would they really go to child killers?

I would prefer education and health to benefit.

2shoes 16:07:23 - well said , 10 year olds know right from wrong , end of .

Edited to add, because Mary Bell had her identity changed we cannot assume that she went on to be a wonderful mother, she might be a terrible human being. We just are not trusted with that information.

Agree with TCF about the rehabilitation. What puzzles me tho' is how to square the conundrum that to protect their identities they can't tell anyone who they are, but they have constant monitoring by probation officers etc -hence the haul back to jail - obviously there are a number of people who do know theire new iDS but they are not allowed to tell their partners and partenrs family? Can see how this would inevitably cause word to srpead, but how can they form any relationship under those circs?
I heard the JV had been given permission to join the army - comrades in arms, total trust and all that - how does that work?
Seems that anyone who knew who they were would not want to form a relationship with them, but if they aren't told isn't it unacceptably unfair on that partner not to know the background of the person who may become parent of their children. Suppose he takes up with a single mother of a two-year old? However goos his rehabilitation seems criminal not to give that woman the information.

I doubt very much he would be allowed to start a relationship with a woman with a child without the woman being told. In fact I know it is very unlikely. All of his relationships will be monitored and an assessment made as to the risk he poses to them.

Noone disputes they knew right from wrong. That is not the issue. Unless someone is a psychopath or completely insane then most people know right from wrong. I don't think that is the debate.

Alousieq - what/where is your evidence that most serious offenders cannot be rehabilitated? If that is your opinion then you are entitled to it - but it is not a fact.

The link with sex offenders is a bit unhelpful because it is a completely different set of motivations. There is a high degree of sex offenders who have a pathology who can't be totally rehabilitated but that does not mean their risk can't be managed.

"Alousieq - what/where is your evidence that most serious offenders cannot be rehabilitated? "
The do NOT DESERVE to be rehabilitated. They should be locked up for the rest of their miserable days. End of.
In solitary confinement.
The huggy fluffs who cry 'human ights' - where were Jamie's human rights? Answer that.
Stop whinging about the society and its responsibility. 10 year old children know right from wrong.
It was not an accident, it was planned deliberate horribly deranged murder and lengthy torture of a small 2 year old child.
NO excuses.
[SICK]

So angry that can't type properly...
How can some be sympathetic towards these monsters is beyond me.
What would you say if this happened to your child?

Sometimes people are so evil and damaging that humanity need to be protected from them. I don't want to be part of any society that affords greater rights, resources and protection to the perpetrators than the victims.

Fifitot, why are sex offenders different and why should they be managed rather than punished?

The bottom line is society as a whole should be protected from them not subsidise them.

My evidence that rehabilitation doesn't work is every dodgy criminal who is in prison for the second, third, fourth time.