Faith schools should say homosexuality is normal..

[daftpunk]

Why can't people just leave us alone

'I am not responsible for how people work out in their head which bits they want to pretend not to see and which bits they will die for because it is the will of God/Allah.'

Therefore forget those who have in depth knowledge of ancient Hebrew, ancient Greek, detailed knowledge of the historical context in which different scriptures were written [not me btw] any knowledge of that is redundant as what we all of them are really doing is cherry picking bits of the bible they like, yes?

Pofaced, we seem to be holding two different conversations here. I am saying that 'I' have no way to know which bits some Christians believe and which bits other Christians believe. There are an awful lot of different kinds of Christian.

If you are saying that all the different Christian beliefs are based on careful study of ancient Hebrew/Greek etc then fine. What's that got to do with anything?

Just so you know (and it makes no odds to me) there are Christians who believe that every single word as it stands now is the perfect word of god (with all translations guided by his hand)

But don't dispute that with me. Take it up with them.

No I'm not saying all the Christian beliefs are based on careful studies. I am saying people, atheists and Christians alike, fall into the trap of taking bits of the Old Testament totally out of historical, cultural and linguistic context to support their own pre-existing beliefs. And pointing it out doesn't mean you're just 'cherry picking' bits of the Bible you like. And I take it up with Christians all the bloody time.

Can't homosexuals just accept that not everyone thinks being gay is normal or natural. I have never met anyone who thinks homosexuals should be killed or discriminated against, but we don't want homosexuality shoved down our throats, just like homosexuals wouldn't want my religion shoved down their throats.

If the subject of homosexuality ever comes up with my dc I will say to them..

"yes, homosexuality is normal behaviour for homosexuals, and they should be free to live their life happily, however, it is not normal for our family"

And when I say "catholics" I know I'm not talking for all catholics, it's just easier to say that....

And I know there are gay priests....so what..? There are teachers who are on drugs and love it, doesn't mean they teach children that taking drugs is great and should be encouraged.

God help one of your children dp if they are gay, when you say 'it is not normal for our family' Because they will never be able to tell you. Frightening.

But it will be ok if they want to take drugs though won't it?

and comparing gay priests with teachers on drugs - I really find what you say sickening.

The biggest scandal in all of this of course is these committed Christians who are so vehement against homosexuality conveniently IGNORE some of Christ's most central teachings - Give up all your material belongings, live amongst the poor and dedicate your life to helping those who are most destitute and in trouble WITHOUT JUDGEMENT. Not many of us do it as it is not very easy to fit in with cappuccinos and after school club but funny to go on about obeying what is in the bible.

Taking drugs is something alot of children will do, most grow out of it..

Homosexuality is a completely different issue.

Plus I'm pretty sure my dc are strong enough to tell me if they are gay....because if they're anything like their mother they will say.... "mum, I'm gay, and I couldn't give a toss what you think"

I'm sure I'd be ok once the shock had worn off..

right then, so you've no problem with schools teaching that some people are gay and that's fine then? Your children are strong enough to go against you saying to them 'being gay is not normal for our family' so how could they possibly be influenced by anything a school has to say? And what makes you think your children are stronger than any others? Do you think being gay is contagious?

DP, you want us to accept that 'not everyone thinks being gay is normal or natural' and you'd be on firmer ground if you asked us to accept that 'not everyone thinks being gay is nice'

Homosexuals are and always have been a part of our species so not thinking they are normal or natural is just incorrect.

You are entitled to think they are not nice if you want. Some people may believe that zebras are not nice.

Of course (and this is the problem) if you have some kind of zebra phobia you can't be allowed to teach zoology to kids. Not as a punishment, but because it would be almost impossible for you to be unbiased on the subject of 4 legged herbivores.

This is why faith schools are a problem. Because no matter how you mess about with rules and guidelines you are asking too much to expect someone with faith to be unbiased on matters pertaining to it.

Well it seems anything you do yourself is ok for your children

I think if primary aged children are taught that homosexuality is normal it might encourage some children to experiment with it.....I don't want my son thinking it's ok to fancy his best mate..

I have no problem with older children being taught about homosexuals.

And hasn't New York banned civil partnerships....? (might be wrong here)

If New Yorkers are saying enough is enough things must be bad...

NH; I am not on drugs

So you do think being gay is contagious. You're clearly bonkers.

[onager I would say rather than faith making people homophobic, homophobic people are often drawn to religion to make them feel justified and superior. Christianity is very clearly about tolerance and non-judgement]

Coming late to this debate. My best male friend is gay and while he is happy (now) with his sexuality he dreaded for a long time that either of his nephews would be gay because for him it had been a traumatic time in coming to terms with things.

My son does not understand "gay" yet (is just 7) but when he asks I will simply say that some men live with men and some women live with women. I'll go into more detail if and when he asks.

I don't think he'd experiement with another male unless he has leanings that was just because of a conversation.

In school (he goes to a catholic school) it simply has not been addressed yet (although the priest leaving the priesthood to live with the mother of one of his classmates HAS been discussed).

I didn't say you were DP but you have bragged on here before about being stoned so would assume drugs were involved.makes you paranoid you know and is a bad example but not sure hwat the church says about it so you are prob in the clear

I have had a few conversations on here that I shouldn't have had, I regret those...but those conversations were with people I considered good friends, and on fairly small threads that most people wouldn't take much notice of...(and were probably in chat so have disappeared)

But now, another 500 people know I have taken drugs.

You are just too good to me.

Well according to the catholic church it is morally wrong and involves direct participation in evil but it ok for you to cherry pick what is and isn't morally acceptable.

I think if primary aged children are taught that homosexuality is normal it might encourage some children to experiment with it.....I don't want my son thinking it's ok to fancy his best mate..

I have no problem with older children being taught about homosexuals.

That's OK then....

AFAIK no-one is talking about primary aged kids. Gosh, I wish we'd established this 20 pages ago!

The difference between sexual orientation and drug taking is that the first is a matter of nature and the second is whether or not you actively choose stupid and potentially life-messing-up behaviour. Drug taking is not normal/natural or harmless.

GrimmaTheNome;

I know drug taking is completely stupid and irresponsible, I would never deny that...and fwiw, I think that Briton who was executed in China for drug smuggling got all he deserved. I wasn't criticizing China...their country, their rules. I think all drug smugglers should be shot...

I suppose you were demanding China deport him so he could spend 2 years in an open prison learning how to write poetry.

Direct participation in evil? According to the Bible, we're participating in evil if we are greedy, or swear, or ever have a sexually covetous thought about someone who isn't our partner. Do we spend our time haranguing people who might have said "phwoar - I'd love to spend a bit of time with you"! at a neighbour or passer by in the street?
Why would gays be more evil than those things?

DP - this is the last time I will engage with you on this thread as you are probably one of the most unChristian (from your postings here, anyway) 'Christians' it has been my misfortune to encounter and I'm finding it increasingly upsetting to read your nonsense. The likes of you and Anne Widdecombe (not to mention that prize shite Ratzinger) make me ashamed to be Catholic.

But before I do... that Briton who was executed was mentally ill. He was duped, promised all kinds for delivering those drugs and should never have been executed. He certainly woudn't have ended up in an open prison writing poetry (where do you get this crap from??)

As for the 'If children think homosexuaity is normal it might tempt them into experimenting with it'... words fail me. Are you really so very ignorant? As you say you don't know any gay people in RL I assume you must be, and I urge you to educate yourself before posting any more nasty-minded, hurtful drivel on the net.

It's because of people like you that DD's Godfather lived a lie for years, pretending to his v. Catholic Irish parents that he was something he wasn't because he had to grow up hearing all that 'gays are wicked perverts' nonsense. Thank Christ he's come out the other side of it okay, but it's caused him a lot of misery that could have been averted.

When I go to mass tomorrow I shall pray for you. It can't be good for you carrying around all that anger and bitterness.

China? Where did that come from?
[where's the totally mystified emoticon when you need it?]

Er, no, I think that man should have had a proper psychiatric assessment and then a fair trial. But what that has to do with anything else on this thread totally eludes me.