Faith schools should say homosexuality is normal..

[daftpunk]

Why can't people just leave us alone

MIFLAW you sound really aggressive and scary so I am going to bow out and go and do something nice. I don't fancy the bullying tone of this thread.

But, if I may just say one more thing - there are over 20,000 faith schools in Britain. 70% of which are CofE (not Catholic). They are always far more over-subscribed than non-faith schools. By families of faith and none. That must mean that "lots and lots of people" do like them and are "convinced" by them.

Just to finish, I went to a Catholic school. My friend teaches in one. The only thing that is said about homosexuality in RE lessons is that it is not what God intends. But that all people must be respected and valued.

That seems ok to me.

Am I the only one who is suprised that schools already don't have to have a bullying policy that cover homophobia?

FWIW my local Catholic secordary has included homophobia in its anti bullying policy and 'covers' homosexuality is PSH from Y7.

Riven, that is a very good point. I can't answer it. Thoughts can be uncontrollable, temptation wouldn't be temptation otherwise, but actions are entirely your own responsibility. I think that was my implication.

I would love for DP to think differently, but she won't, she has no interest in the counter arguments. In view of that to think it and not say it, knowing the words hurt others, is preferable to saying it.

And when is homophobia going to be reclassed as homoism? That still irritates me.

You know perfectly well, dp that you don't want a debate. You want everyone to agree with you. You are doing what you always do - you post an pinion that most right thinking people disagree with, you refuse to defend your position in any coherent fashion and just say that's your opinion any your entitled to it. You then accuse everyone who doesn't agree with you of victimizing any bullying you, play the victim card and leave. Until the next time you feel like doing a bit more attention seeking.

at MIFLAW's post being seen as bullying. I thought he was very restrained.

Aww, those scary homos bothering you again daftpunk

Guys, don't feed the terminally bigoted. Its just self indulgent whining, shes not listening to any of you.

Emily

So so sorryif I sound aggressive and scary - especially since this

"Emily

The yare State schools, paid for out of State money, provided by lots and lots of people who are not in the slightest bit convinced by your religion, and therefore these schools are - and should be - answerable to the State. It's a pity they exist at all but, if they must, then that's the way it has to be."

is the only comment I have ever addressed to you on Mumsnet and I cannot for the life of me see what I have said that is aggressive or scary. Unless it is the scary, aggressive, facts it contains?

Even if every single one of those faith schools had a roll of 600; and even if every single child in them was an only child with two parents; and even if every single child was sent there out of sincere religious conviction rather than through lack of choice, poor provision of non-denominational education, or just hard-headed cynicism about results, then that would still represent a minority of people in this country endorsing the beliefs of those schools. And I would say that it is obvious to even the most casual observer that those are all impossibly high estimates, especially as the vast majority of those schools will be primaries which have much lower rolls and which are much less likely to have children travelling long distances, so that attendance is much more about convenience than conviction.

What seems okay to you - or to me, come to that - is neither here nor there. These are state schools and so cannot be outside the very clear laws on what is and is not permissible in classrooms.

"As far as I'm aware, it's not illegal to consider homosexuality to be an unusual practice is it? Why can people not have that opinion? Are we no longer allowed to express any views that differ from the mainstream liberal consensus without being called bigots? I don't think Catholic schools are out there advising kids to beat up gays are they??? But if their view is that it's an all-advised practice which differs from what God intends, then why should that bother anyone else?"

emilygilmore theres so much wrong with this post i don't know where to start. if you get called bigoted, it may be because you are.
Ill advised practice my arse, it isn't a practice, its a fundamental part of a persons human nature, and if your god didn't intend people to be gay why did it invent them in the first place?
And please do explain how you know exactly what your god intends people do, especially those who don't beleive in it?

You know me, crunch - bullying is my life's work.

Poo I agree with you on the whole but I don't think it's helpful to say "if god didn't intend peope to be gay, why did he invent them"... We could apply this to anything!

It's also a bit trite to ask religious people to tell you how they know "for sure" what they believe in.

I do think this is a decent debate actually, but it's starting to look a bit like Catholic-bashing and, although I'm not one, I like to think I can respect all people's rights to their faith, whatever it may be and however much I disagree with it.

Emily, I'm no psychologist, but I would be more inclined to define pooexplosions' post as "scary and aggressive." Right, of course - but a bit scary too.

Just to give you a benchmark for next time you're around ...

There are many catholics who have had to adapt as society has become more open and has changed.many taboos from the past have been seen for what they are across all religions i was brought up in ireland until i was 15 and know several gay catholics.This is about individual bigotry using the church as a shield to air some pretty awful opinions

Mr Clegg may not even have been particularly thinking about RC schools anyway. He might well have been reminded by Mrs Robinson of the views of some Irish Protestants. And then the CofE splitting itself apart over gay bishops doesn't send a clear message that its OK to be gay does it. And some branches of Islam...

(argghhh, are trailing ellipses catching?)

There are plenty of catholics who think that the anti-gay doctrines and the contraceptive doctrines are barking (they are both from the same argument)

They might be, Grimma ... They might be ...

MP;

What you, and most other people fail to understand, is that living in a tolerant society means you are expected to be tolerant of all people. You haven't shown one iota of tolerance towrads me or my views...

Why is that..?

Because being tolerant of people who are not tolerant of others is nonsensical. Should we be tolerant of Nazis and the Klu Klux Klan?

All schools have a duty to protect their pupils and implement policies that combat bullying. If a child is being bullied for their sexual orientation than the school has a duty to deal with that. Reinforcing that the LGBT child is flawed or sinful will have the opposite effect - so they must have a policy in place to make sure that doesn't happen.

Anyone who disagrees with that is essentially saying that they believe schools should ignore or encourage bullying of certain children.

I'm not tolerant of teachers who want to teach creationism

I'm not tolerant of teachers who want to teach anything they believe at the expense of the law/fact

You can believe what you like - you can't proclaim it when doing so ruins people's lives

fucking hell, dp, what's going on with you at the moment? this is a horrible, nasty, piece of shit thread and you knew that when you started it.

it's like you actually do want to be banned or, as i've seen you talk about recently, 'driven off'. i'm a bit worried about you, tbh, you've always been feisty and opinionated, but you're not unkind.

"A senior Anglican bishop, who did not want to be named, added: 'Instituting something that must be taught, come what may, is frighteningly fascist.'"

I wonder if he has a problem with 2 + 2 = 4 as well and would like schools to have the right to say it equals 3 if they want.