Three Irish women who travelled to the UK to have abortions have now gone to Strasbourg to argue that Ireland's strict abortion law violated their rights.

[TinselInYourBum]

[http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/news/2009/12/091209_ireland_abortion_et_sl.shtml]

God and I still can't do links.

I strongly feel that abortion should be kept illegal in Ireland.

MN Jury?

"genuine need" can be hard to define though

Would I have had 'genuine need'? If the mothers life is in danger, will they terminate a pregnancy in Ireland?

I think it is imperative that women have access to abortion as their right, and their rights as a living adult, take precedence over the unborn baby.

i think abortion as contraception is in the minority and there can be so many complex reasons why a woman would not want to continue her pregnancy, that making it harder to acccess is immoral and wrong

LauryFairy, the reason it must be chosen at the ballot box is that this step is necessary for constitutional change to occur in Ireland, unlike the US, for instance, where the supreme court decides fairly unpredictably how things will be arranged -- 9 judges whose rulings affect the lives and rights of 250 million people, and who have got it spectacularly wrong in the past (see slavery, etc) is not, imo, a better option.

The issue here with the court case is who gets to decide, and how, on the question of legislation about abortion. Ireland has worked consistently to shore up and strengthen her rights vis a vis the European Convention and other European bodies (see recent Treaty developments) in this and other domestic areas (as well as in the area of foreign policy), partly because of a belief in popular democracy, and partly because political parties know that whoever presides over the demolition of Irish rights to self-determination in areas such as abortion would be dead meat at the polls.

Yes it may involve two lives but one is a mere potential human being, and two beings inhabiting one body can not have equal say, therefore imho the owner of the body, not the one 'borrowing' it for a while gets to decide what is done with her body.

I'm with Mugggle and Edam on this. It's wrong to deny women this, and I believe that it is a right.

And the only person who can decide if she has a genuine need is the woman herself, to be honest I don't care if others think it's a genuine need or not.

If a woman doesn't want to continue with a pregnancy for any reason, then she should be allowed an abortion because while I'm uncomfortable to an extent with the mechanics of abortion. It's a mere fraction of how uncomfortable I am with the idea that it's right, in any circumstances, to force a woman to continue with an unwanted pregnancy.

I disagree - it gives a very poor message to the rest of the world that the Irish are ignorant when they are given the vote on matters like this.

If Iraq were a democracy and were allowed to vote to stone adulterers to death it wouldn't make it right just because it was democratic.

Stupid decisions are stupid decisions whether 'democratic' or not.

WHY SHOULD IT BE ILLEGAL IN IRELAND??

it should not. I'm pro-choice, I'm Irish. I'm not going to persuade any Irish woman to have an abortion, but nobody, NOBODY should seek to control the actions, life and outcome of another woman's life. That is abhorrent to me.

Good for the three women, I hope they are successful. It is not before time.

I will stand up in a room full of Irish women and shout it to the roof tops because that's how pro-choice I am. There are a lot of us about now.

Too much hypocrisy over abortion in Ireland. What would we DO with the UK rug to sweep our problem under?

There would be Irish women dying in back street parlours. Then we'd know all about a real problem.

It is hypocritical, Maggie.

One of the problems in Ireland when this issue is debated is that people are not not on the same page at all, and do not have the same terms of reference. There's the philosophical on the one hand and on the other the real life nuts and bolts. In general, Irish voters tend to vote philosophically.

ChickensHaveNoTinsel abortion itself is illegal in Ireland

But it is not illegal to advise a woman about travelling abroad for an abortion, but this advice is subject to strict guidelines (there is an Act outlining these).

It is against the law to advise or encourage abortion to an individual.

If you had a genuine need then you'd have to travel to have an abortion - it would be legal but you wouldn't be able to have the actual abortion on Irish soil.

Women who have travelled to England or another country to have an abortion (possibly for reasons such as the foetus is not considered viable outside the womb) often find it difficult and very expensive to achieve medical care within Ireland, if they experience health difficulties after the abortion abroad.

Philosophically?! do mean, like theoretically, with an ideal in mind and no provision for what they do/think if it happened to them or their friend?? If so, I agree with that

And.. the pro-lifers show hideous footage of late abortions.

According to uk stats, 90% of abortions are carried out before 12 weeks in the UK. You can bet that it takes the Irish contingent an extra fortnight to 3 weeks to arrange their abortion when they are travelling to the UK!!

I don't know what would happen if we had a referendum. In the last lisbon treaty there were oul fellas of 75 voting no to the lisbon treaty because they didn't want abortion in Ireland!!! (in the first referendum that is). It would be undemocratic to say that those 70 year olds aren't entitled to a vote, but it pisses me off!!!

Buddleja - That is what I was afraid of.

What about in the cases of ectopic pregnancy? Surely those pregnancies are terminated in order to save the life of the mother?

I feel very strongly as I have had an abortion, a controversial one.
my posts on the subject, well some of them.
Please do read them.

I needed that abortion, I have no regrets and I feel OK about it now, though it took time.
I'm seeing my ex again, I adore him and him me, but it didn't come without emotional scars for both of us, and I know some of them show on DD.

I know I wouldn't be here, in the state I am now without legal abortion, and legal, safe abortion was hard enough, and difficult (emotionally, physically, financially) enough.

I believe it's truly misogynistic, and horrible to deny women abortion.
I think abortion in this country needs to be looked at anyway, to make it more accessible, but to deny it? I have no words.

I'm Irish and I think abortion should be legal. From friends who are/were nurses, I wonder if there might be some difficulties in finding hospital staff to carry out abortions.

I'm not very optimistic about the chances of success at the ECtHR though, given the doctrine of "margin of appreciation" (ie. states have a certain amount of freedom to implement the European Convention on Human Rights in line with their own culture and traditions, once they don't breach it) and the fact that the European Convention has never been interpreted as creating a right to an abortion. We'll see.

ChickensHaveNoTinsel an ectopic pregnancy will be treated here in Ireland - you would not have to travel, this is because it is a life saving procedure and is not consider abortion

Eire wanted freedom from protestant rule. Look at the efforts that the Irish went to get independence? Surely that should be respected.

People having varying views on abortion and who is to say that the Irish are wrong?

"I wonder if there might be some difficulties in finding hospital staff to carry out abortions.".

There are difficulties finding staff to carry out abortions here NicknameTaken.

It is very easy to opt out of, and some do because of the 'dinner party effect'.
It upsets me very much, but I can see why it's the case. No one wants to admit to carrying out abortions now do they?

There was only one English as a first language doctor in the clinic I went to, and I almost wanted to jump up and hug him, for helping me. He was the anaesthetist, so he was trying to get me not to jump up!

I suppose it's such a controversial thing, that it's sometimes best avoided, and if you can avoid it easily, then you may aswell.

It hurt me though, especially as it was used against me by my friend. ("Even doctors don't agree with what you are doing, that shows how wrong you are")

Sorry you had that experience, muggle.

"Eire wanted freedom from protestant rule" bollocks. they wanted independence full stop.

I have always been pro-life and feel even more strongley after miscarrying two very much wanted mid trimester pregnancies. However I do feel that women should be given access to safe legal abortions in their home country as they will probably been able to have them earlier than if travelling abroad and will not have to find 'back street abortionists' which could put them in danger.

I hate the thought of abortion becoming as horrendously common place here as it is in the UK and States

I do feel there are certain situations where it's the lesser evil but in countries where it is legal and common it seems to be viewed as last resort contraception with no restrictions or councelling in place.

I read a shocking statistic recently, apparently 50% of all pregnancies in the States are aborted.... I hope to god that it isn't actually true, the thought of half of all babies conceived being terminated is distressing.

Abortion isn't contraception, it's the death of a foetus, and as long as so many women seem disinclined to aknowledge that fact then i really hope it doesn't become legalised over here.

Actually, the number of abortions has been going down yr after yr here in Italy, after abortion was made legal in 1978.

Tulips. I and the other pro choicers know what an abortion involves. Why do you seem to suggest that we're unaware of that or try to hide it?

And as for no restrictions.

'The Abortion Act 1967 covers the UK mainland (England, Scotland, and Wales), but not Northern Ireland. The law states that:

'?Abortions must be carried out in a hospital or a specialised licensed clinic.
?Two doctors must agree that an abortion would cause less damage to a woman's physical or mental health than continuing with the pregnancy.'

Is contraception free in Ireland?